FallFest X - ffvii-room-one

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:00 AM

Welcome towards #ffvii-room-one first session in Fall Fest VII! My name is Patrick aka BlackWolf and I will be your host for this session named "The Other Side Of Society". It is not aimed at what the current political vision is of our real world, lets not spoil our fun shall we

No, this is focused on the walking trend that is seen with new players entering our various organization across our wonderful created worlds in the RPG Community.

The question to kick this session off is as followed "New Members tend to stick with something familiar, it doesn't matter what genre it is, because they will most likely always play a human (maybe with a modification on their character). Is it truly difficiult for a player to play a Sith recruit, a Cylon or a Klingon? How does your organization or you, as player, experience this?"

[IDF] Charles Star 09-Dec-17 10:03 AM

interesting question!

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 10:03 AM

I tend to find that at least an opening chrachter is well advised to blend familliar and unfamilliar. The familliar gives them a grounding to start RPing off of in what might be an otherwise overwhelmingly unfamilliar place. But they should experiment with somehting new as well to serve as a first step into the new world. As for the familliar bit I find this tends to work best with a personality trait, cause or idealogy. (edited)

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:03 AM

I just want a decent looking avatar and there are more humans available

and it's not as though humanity isn't diverse as it is

Saying that if you see any older vulcan women with slight smiles pm me that

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:04 AM

I find one big issue

Is that no one wants to play the bad guys

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:05 AM

@Deleted User will do

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:05 AM

The bad guys have a unique and diverse backround just as much as the good guys

[IDF] Charles Star 09-Dec-17 10:05 AM

Edge, why do you think it's so difficult to writers to delve into to those other characters, like bad buys?

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:05 AM

And often times, the bad guys aren't eve bad. They are ust against the predecided good

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:05 AM

As Game Master of the USS Tornado, I do tend to see quite a bit of players that apply with a human when the Star Trek universe has so much to offer. When I joined a Mass Effect Community the most populated made characters were indeed the Humans. It is something that does come forward.

@Ikate Keda Studios a far good point that bad guy/gals are not the first choice for players. What would be in your opinion be the hold back for that?

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:06 AM

@TarHeelÉire ty

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:06 AM

Everyone wants to be a hero

Everyone wants to be the spotlight

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:06 AM

I must admit that I rather have the opposite problem, with innexperienced players who want to make special snowflakes, like a Klingon/Andorian/Vulcan/Xindi whose every limbs were replaced by cybernetic arms and legs, or an android with 50 guns in her chest. It's very problematic because we then have to explain the newbies that their character is going to be in a game with other characters who might shit themselves at the sight of their amazing monstrosity, which will make it very hard to play with anyone. As such, I'm absolutely delighted when a new player wants to play a Human, because better stick with what they know than attempt playing an alien species they don't know much shit about anyway, and would make a bad rendition of, which would also hinder the fun for other players

2

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:06 AM

No one wants to be dispised because there is a lack of available vanity in the moment

Mobius 09-Dec-17 10:06 AM

I always had a feeling more people chose humans as their characters just because they were doing a little bit of self inserting. I don't know for certain tho

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:07 AM

I believe your villains have to have teeth. If the players know "Oh everyone is gonna get out just fine" the impact is lessened. Villains need to be feared.

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:07 AM

Oh yeah, My first character was a snowflake

Carde 09-Dec-17 10:07 AM

Personally it is hard for me to not go in everywhere with a full or at least halkf Romulan character, but in the end we write what we like and are comfortable with. I love the Romulans, but I also love my own species and I have created a fair number of them.

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:07 AM

I won't get shot if I post a star wars quote in here will I XD

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:07 AM

So I'm also adversed to making snowflakes now

Moss 09-Dec-17 10:07 AM

@Ikate Keda Studios, I have learned that you can't be the writer for the hero. Recently, I have began to write for the villians on my simm

lola 09-Dec-17 10:07 AM

I'm a bit confused, are you saying you want people to play more humans or not?

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:07 AM

@Ikate Keda Studios nah, Han already shot first.

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 10:07 AM

I don't think it's actually that difficult to do a bad guy, well written ones can be very sympathetic and relatable. We all have a bit of bad guy in us that we just sit on and supress. You can tap into that. Particularly if you study history and you lern what drove the bad guys of the past. I think the reason people don't want to is that (for narative reasons) they allmost allways loose in the end and can certainly never be permitted to outright win or it kills the RP. You need someone who doesn't care about the advancement of the charachter to have someone willing to play a bad guy. They exist, but are rare

1

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:07 AM

That is indeed a solid mirror reaction of the problem that is seen in various other communities @Lysle but good to point out

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:07 AM

@Carde same with Cardassians here, they're my fav species

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:07 AM

@Moss you would be shocked by how true that is

Think o it

Moss 09-Dec-17 10:07 AM

I have found writing for the villians to be so much FUN!

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:08 AM

How many times have you found the bad guy to be more entertaining to read than the good guys?

Camila 09-Dec-17 10:08 AM

The problem I've found with allowing unique characters like that is that the players usually have a very hard time playing the character or want something so completely different that it doesn't really fit in the Star Trek universe. If someone has a full background for a species and has samples of their writing of that character which fits the bio/background, I'd be in favor of giving them a chance.

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:08 AM

Or watch, in visual medias

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:08 AM

@lola The topic itself begins that most players that are new to writing, play human. @Lysle points out that in some group it is the other side of the coin that players want to play something unique. Thought overall it is the human characters that over populate it

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:08 AM

It's not difficult but there are pitfalls. There is only one bad guy I've ever seen that actually knew he was bad and was any fun to watch

Carde 09-Dec-17 10:08 AM

I always write a species history and general feathures if I create any to giver people an idea baout them

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:09 AM

Unfortunately he was in a bad movie

lola 09-Dec-17 10:09 AM

Ohh I see, my group has a nice balance of human and alien, I think!

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 10:09 AM

Everyone is the hero of thier own story. it's a cliche quote but it's true

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:09 AM

@lola and all of course, I do tend to know what is the ratio in terms of human played characters in your sims, organizations?

Annabelle 09-Dec-17 10:10 AM

I generally like to stick with what I know. I've only recently started playing alien species and I've been writing for the best part of 12 years

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:10 AM

I found one of the best quote about playing a evil character, is the Takig the life of an innocent quote in the starwar universe

lola 09-Dec-17 10:10 AM

@RaWolfe I am honestly not sure @Lysle keeps track of our characters in a spreadsheet though

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:10 AM

(in-joke) If you were a Freespacer in YE 30, you'd probably see my character Hanako as a bad guy.

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:10 AM

Oh jesus

lola 09-Dec-17 10:10 AM

humans are a minority in my sims, as far as I can tell

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:10 AM

Wes

NO

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:10 AM

@RaWolfe I would have to wonder if age of the players is something that factors in? On our forum, we have a number of young adults, and I noticed that the younger the players, the more they tend to go for alien species, while the older ones go for Humans and more "regular" species most And we mostly have aliens or half-aliens (edited)

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:10 AM

XD XD

Oh that hurt XD

lola 09-Dec-17 10:10 AM

it's not an insult, i dont think

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:11 AM

…Taking the life of an innocent is always harder even than taking your own, if you're sincere. This is the ultimate test of selflessness—whether you're ready to face unending emotional pain, true agony, to gain the power to create peace and order for billions of total strangers. That is the sacrifice. To be vilified by others, by people you know and care for, and for your personal sacrifice to be totally unknown to those billions you save, to do your duty as a Sith. To do your duty for the good of the galaxy. It's easy to be a clean-cut hero slaying monsters. There's always a little bit of vanity in it. There can be no room for vanity or pride in being despised.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:11 AM

Is that true? I'm not sure if I've noticed that in my RP, Trans

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:11 AM

It might be that we have a different population/target audience

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:11 AM

Can we define alien?

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:11 AM

So @Lysle you would say that the older generation is more safe betting on human characters and new generation is more aimed at exploring the new things like we have seen with Star Trek Discovery that opened new aliens

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:11 AM

On Star Army, we have a few "Human" alies

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:11 AM

@Ikate Keda Studios Not human.

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:12 AM

They are aliens, but they look human

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:12 AM

Something important to know about RevFleet is that our userbase also happens to be mostly European, and maybe that factors too

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:12 AM

Does that count as an Alien?

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:12 AM

I'd say so. Betazoids look human but aren't.

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:12 AM

@RaWolfe I would think so! But I might be wrong too

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:12 AM

Is a human with wings just as alien as say, this guy? https://i.imgur.com/6nrlQ0C.jpg?1

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:13 AM

You ever notice that people are more willing to pay other species (as in aliens) than other races?

lola 09-Dec-17 10:13 AM

@Ikate Keda Studios thats a sure fire alien my dude

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:13 AM

Beware the Mutant, the Alien, the Heretic

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:13 AM

A very interesting observation there @Lysle , is the newer generation of writers taking this bold act of exploring new species? To resume on the topic, "What would make a difficult approached species, more approachable and attractive to play?"

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:13 AM

The human with wings?

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:13 AM

Mutant

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:14 AM

What would make a difficult approached species, more approachable and attractive to play?

Brilliant question!

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:14 AM

Thanks @Ikate Keda Studios !

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:14 AM

This is a page with some 300 characters from my RP illustrated as chibis, look at the percentage of them that are white. https://stararmy.com/wiki/doku.php?id=art:gallery:raph_chibi_collection

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:15 AM

I believe that what makes a species approachable is: 1. looks (people tend to fall for looks a lot) 2. understanding the psychology of the species (people tend to stay away from what they don't quite get, in case they might heck it up) On RevFleet, we've made some fanon annexes to expand on some species, like Andorians, Cardassians, and Trills (so far)

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:15 AM

I would personal lie that a Klingon would be easy to play or Tholian. Maybe a Star Wars Jedi Lord would be fun to play. But what would be the trigger to play a Krogan from mass effect?

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:15 AM

Some things I notice in my time is that there are a few surefire ways of making your species approachable. - Power - Attractiveness - Authority - Unique without being unique

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:15 AM

I think that a species that has a well documented and familiar culture, with examples, is much more likely to be played than one that has a short description.

lola 09-Dec-17 10:15 AM

@RaWolfe Ooh the pull of the Krogan may be the dynamics of the genophage

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:16 AM

Another thing that makes a species attractive, I believe, is if the player can relate to their values, and to their society, or feels attracted by those

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:16 AM

@Lysle that is an interesting approach, what would you put in those documents that explain them more?

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:16 AM

I'd say knowledge of their history and culture. Many people shy away from Vulcans thinking them uninteresting, but when they realize (in my experience) and more fully understand how much more powerful their emotions are than humans and/or how they literally almost destroyed themselves because of their emotions, they can see a mirror image of what humans might have been. And therefore, become relatable.

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:16 AM

sure

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:16 AM

@Ikate Keda Studios So kinda explains more into the topic of what @Lysle said. You would want to see more details?

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:16 AM

I wanna make a Vulcan CO based off this image

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 10:16 AM

I think a grounding an an extream version of a huam chrachteristic makes an alien species more approchable and Star Trek, to it's credit does this very well. Logic, Honour and brazeness, Duplicity and caution, extream empathy and so on are all exagerated versions of normnal human traits. This makes them different whilst also understandable.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:17 AM

@TarHeelÉire very good point, the discussion of Vulcans is logical interesting and it was more depth out in Discovery

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:17 AM

Yes. Take elves in Fantasy settings They are old, powerful, and in most liturature described to be good at most things. There is a LARGE population of elf characters on may fantasy roleplay sites

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 10:17 AM

Thing is a lot of aliens are based on Earth species

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:17 AM

The same with Vampires and Werewolves. They hold all those qualities I mentioned

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:17 AM

@Deleted User that's a nice one.

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:18 AM

>Logic Extremists

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:18 AM

And these are VERY popular things to RP

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:18 AM

come on, seriously

Moss 09-Dec-17 10:18 AM

@TarHeelÉire, I blame @[GEC] Kai1701E for me now playing a Human/Vulcan since this is my first trip back into the hybird

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 10:18 AM

@Ikate Keda Studios They appeal to those on the ASD spectrum

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:18 AM

ASD?

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 10:18 AM

Autistic Spectrum Disorder

lola 09-Dec-17 10:18 AM

@Stephen Hunter UK what do you mean by that?

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:18 AM

@RaWolfe In this section of the RevFleet we have fanon lore about different species http://www.revolutionfleet.com/forum/m/46303513/viewforum/8734911 We require our players to write fanon articles about custom-made species, as well as about certain species' current politics in our setting, to have a site consensus

Revolution Fleet: Star Trek Play-by-Forum Roleplay - Enjin - Races

Star Trek play-by-forum role playing game.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:19 AM

Would a Hybrid be the solution to make a difficult approached character more apporachable?

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:19 AM

I feel they appea to most people roleplaying

lola 09-Dec-17 10:19 AM

@Stephen Hunter UK do you mean werewolves and vampires appeal to ASD people? Im confused lol

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:19 AM

Not most people here, but most people roleplaying period

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:19 AM

@Deleted User it makes sense. Logic can be interpreted many different ways. It's not a stretch to me to imagine a small Vulcan subculture that sees the enormous destructive potential of humans and asks, 'why do we want to be a part of that?'

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:19 AM

@Lysle thanks! I will look at it after the session, seeing the speed of this chat, thanks everyone

Moss 09-Dec-17 10:19 AM

@RaWolfe, I think it depends on how you are writing them. Some people take a different apporach to the conflcting status they carry

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 10:19 AM

@lola I meant Vulcans

lola 09-Dec-17 10:19 AM

oh I see, I suppose so

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 10:19 AM

I feel the best part about RPing a Vulcan would be just how extreamly emotional they actually are. The battle to allways keep it driven down would be interesting to explore They chose to let head rule thier heart but thier hearts are putting up a fight (edited)

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:19 AM

I have been on countless feeform sites, and Vampires or Werewolves outnumber most people by a huge margin

[GEC] Kai1701E 09-Dec-17 10:19 AM

My main characters are Trill, Tellarites and Vulcans.

I love aliens now

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:20 AM

Nekovalkyrja are an example of a species that looks mostly human (they look like catgirls or elves basically) on the outside but they have special traits like being able to float.

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:20 AM

@RaWolfe I think hybrids make things A LOT more difficult because they have children of no world. If you're half-Vulcans, you're a Vulcan among Humans, and a Human among Vulcans, so you never fit anywhere completely, and you have a harder time relating to anyone. It brings more challenges

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 10:20 AM

@Edgeford Definitely. ASD people have that problem

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:20 AM

@[SARP] Wes so that is a different approach, hubrid them to form something new and build from there?

@Lysle but at the other side it would make a fresh start, outcast?

lola 09-Dec-17 10:21 AM

not sure i like the term 'problem'

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:21 AM

The Vulcan heart is always fighting to be heard. It makes the moments when a Vulcan does express romantic or violent emotion that much more powerful.

mynameisrayb 09-Dec-17 10:21 AM

I mainly play Humans. Though I do have a few betazoid characters, and I did have a few bajorans at one time

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:21 AM

@RaWolfe A good example of a race that has a problem relating would be mine. The Vekimen https://i.imgur.com/s9CfL0V.jpg?2

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:21 AM

Well, I'm sayign that players want to play a character that looks good on the outside and has all the parts in the places they expect, but there's also a desire to be more than human.

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:21 AM

Wes nailed it

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:21 AM

@TarHeelÉire Surka's teachings were utilitarian, which you're right, but Spocks death in WOK associated the "needs of the many" with altruism

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:21 AM

More than human

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:22 AM

Of course I'm right, I'm TDV.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:22 AM

@Ikate Keda Studios @[SARP] Wes so something that looks ...well frankly said ugly, is not loved among players?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:22 AM

There's a thing that the Nekovalkyrja have, which is they're born inot the military as a soldier/weapon and they experience this journey towards being a fully rounded person that can function in regular society.

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 10:22 AM

@lola Wrong word choice, but it can be a real issue when emotions clash with logic

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:22 AM

Mcuh like Spock learning about his human side

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:22 AM

You're right until you include altruism

lola 09-Dec-17 10:22 AM

oh i see

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:22 AM

Vekimen aren't ugly! XD XD XD, You are correct though

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:23 AM

And voilence is inherantly illogical

Annabelle 09-Dec-17 10:23 AM

I know what you mean Stephen. I find it difficult to relate at times but I'm fortunate to have a couple of friends who also have ASD

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:23 AM

Right Blackwolf. Speaking generally, player characters come in two forms: Attractive, or badass/ugly

Annabelle 09-Dec-17 10:23 AM

It's been a big help

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:23 AM

We resort to violence after dialoug has failed Dialough > Logos > Logic

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:23 AM

Well that is the thing, there are various things that would make a species not approachable, the looks, the long dragging history....the complicated rules, stuff like that

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:23 AM

@Deleted User in your interpretation. Is it not logical to use violence to protect oneself?

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 10:23 AM

It would depend

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:23 AM

@[SARP] Wes bad ass ugly, love that +1

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 10:23 AM

Protect other maybe

Camila 09-Dec-17 10:24 AM

What about beautiful/badass?

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:24 AM

Was it not logical for the Kelvin universe Enterprise to attempt to destroy Nero's ship, or should they have just asked nicely?

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:24 AM

Maybe we should define the things that make a species unattractive, then work on how to make them attractive @RaWolfe

I will volunteer my species if you need an example XD

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:24 AM

Make-up does wonders /badjoke

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:24 AM

@TarHeelÉire, Surak was a Pacifist

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:24 AM

try not to derail the topic too much??

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:25 AM

@Deleted User he said As far as it is possible, do no harm. There comes a point when it is no longer possible.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:25 AM

@Ikate Keda Studios so the unattractive of your species character is the reason others wont play it or even worse play with you?

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:25 AM

AND THEN WE BURN THEM ALL

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:25 AM

The overlap in the Venn diagram of beautiful and badass is the most popular place to make a character!

3

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 10:25 AM

Indeed

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 10:26 AM

Very true Wes

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:26 AM

That is the strange part @RaWolfe people like playing with my race around. People enoy my characters of my race, they won't participate inplots I generate up until just recently

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 10:26 AM

However, OP is just boring. It's why I would never play a Q even if I could unless it was a plot driving NPC cameo

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:27 AM

@Ikate Keda Studios might the background be a problem? Uhmm what about this question "What could in your opinion be improved to make certain species more playable? A quick course? A simplified guide? Maybe something your organization already uses?!"

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:27 AM

So is "The Other Side Of Society" basically the lesser-played factions or species?

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:27 AM

Yes

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:27 AM

@[SARP] Wes both

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:27 AM

The ones that have a hard time getting players

Tis why I am staying awake for thi

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 10:28 AM

So in my universe the way we did this is I actually started having people play the other side of things. For example our XO started playing one of the Enemy rear admirals

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:28 AM

And we are glad to have you here @Ikate Keda Studios

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:28 AM

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 10:28 AM

And I have encouraged other players to start playing other forces or other species

That way it gives some depth to the story

If you’re just going around saving the day all the time it starts to get bland

But if you start seeing the other side of the coin

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:29 AM

@[TNU]Atsumari very interesting approach, play the other side by giving a more detailed overview!

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:29 AM

Do you need races for the sake of races though? I don't know about you guys but I often play characters to understand certain perspectives these days. I can do that just as effectively as a human as I can with an andorian

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:29 AM

I would tend to think that the appeal of players towards species is also related to the rp experience they are looking forwards. ie: I like Cardassians because I like to play a species whose brain very much do not function like a Human's, and I like their politics. I think young players sometimes have a bad grasp of the species, and it's usually difficult to create a drive that without getting them to read about those species or interact with players who play them well, to understand what about them is attractive

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 10:29 AM

Did you impliment a reward system of some sort Risa. EG, for every 2 "normal chrachters" you must play a "abnormal or bad guy" otherwise no more slots allowed? Or was it all voulntary?

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:29 AM

I mean Andorians have those cute anntenaie though

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:29 AM

I personally prefer when the presence of various species make sense however

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 10:29 AM

In our last mission I actually invited a bunch of the players to play resistance group on the planet we were going to save to actually give the planet some meaning

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:30 AM

so we need more of those

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:30 AM

@Deleted User I feel that is a very setting specific question

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 10:30 AM

And encourage the players to have some loss if something happened on the planet

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:30 AM

Ad could imply they other species are not required

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 10:30 AM

Not enough people are keeping up with the Cardassians these days

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:30 AM

@Deleted User interesting question, but what would trigger you to play ...a Breen? Or something else?

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:30 AM

I keep up with the Cardassians

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:30 AM

On my site we have a big "main" faction, which is the Starfleet of my universe, and there's also a bunch of side factions which are not necessarily against the main faction, but they do their own thing. I find the main faction is always needing more game masters and the the side factions are always starved for players. I think this happened because half the people who are good at GMing have decided to start their own side projects for the sake of creative freedom instead of staying in the main faction to run plots.

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:30 AM

I'm working on Kardasi conlang

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:30 AM

@Lysle Cardassians are actually also a species that is not played alot

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:31 AM

Cardassians are heavily misunderstood~

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:31 AM

I've never played a Breen. Might be interesting

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:31 AM

@[SARP] Wes so kinda exploring the outside of the box, the main one will survive anyway attitude?

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:31 AM

@RaWolfe Breen are about as alien as it gets in Star Trek. We simply don't know enough about them to properly portray them anyway.

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:32 AM

Pm me if anyone needs somewhere for their Cardassian character.

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:32 AM

@[SARP] Wes I think the reason for that is that the people who would be GM's are creative types who want to develop a story and setting and such, while a maority of RPers want to be an idividual living i said story. This is why DND always has more players than Game Masters

And why it is so hard to /find/ game masters

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:32 AM

@TarHeelÉire I think you will get alot of pm's now lol

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 10:32 AM

Saddly I think the dominance of humans and more powerful human like species is self reinforcing. You will get some benevolent or adventerous people who set up as the bad guys or an unpopular but interesting inhuman race. However, when a new player comes in they ussualy want to start in a place with lots of RP partners to ensure they have people to play with and don't just get left alone bored. Particularly if the people playing the odd species also have alts in the main group. Size is self reinforcing and it needs a big, cordinated push to break it

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:32 AM

@RaWolfe I hope so.

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:32 AM

Humanity Fuck Yeah

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:32 AM

@Edgeford but is that because the humans are closer towards ourselves then let say a Cardassian or a Delta?

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:33 AM

You'll never want to play anything else ever again after reading one of those threads

Aside from vulcans and andorians I guess

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:33 AM

@[SARP] Wes Perhaps an initiative?

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:33 AM

But back to the question, would a quick short course about that species (that have a long dragged history) help to make it attractive to play?

Lysle 09-Dec-17 10:34 AM

I have to leave in just a moment, but if anyone is free to pm me about RevFleet, Cardassians or art commissions

1

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:34 AM

I dont think so @RaWolfe

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 10:34 AM

Maybe that's how it started but it's not allways how it maintains itself. I'm currently drafting my first RP chrachter on Bravo fleet and one of my questions when picking a ship was "is this active?" I looked at post frequency to not pick a dead ship. The same can happen with factions and species.

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:34 AM

I like the Romulans and Cardassians because they have a lot of canon lore I guess (edited)

There's a lot to play with there

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:34 AM

@Edgeford it is a problem BF is looking at, but a valid point

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 10:35 AM

I addore Romulans and Cardassians both. If I wasn't alone I'd gladly RP on a ship of them

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:35 AM

@Deleted User So if there is a more solid background you wouold consider playing it?

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:35 AM

Maybe it's just some concepts I can play with

Griff 09-Dec-17 10:35 AM

One thing to bear in mind is that a “species” is an extremely broad thing and can encompass a huge expanse of personalities.

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:36 AM

Romulans have the Hobus disaster and the empire fracturing

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:36 AM

@Edgeford and @[SARP] Wes 's points make a very reasonable solution

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:36 AM

Carrdies have the rebuilding

But I would never play a bajoran

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:36 AM

#bajoranlivesmatter

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:36 AM

#Howcantherebeawarcrimeiftherewasnowar

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:37 AM

@Ikate Keda Studios I do tend to agree, activity is a valid point to consider something in getting someone to sign up.

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:37 AM

@[SARP] Wes Is experince a problem with GM's verse Players and where you find each of those two. @Edgeford Mentions the core root of @[SARP] Wes GM problems in a setting.

I focus on specifics btw @RaWolfe I hope that isn't a problem

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:37 AM

But I have been part of a Romulan ship for 2 or 3 years. The ship was very active and had enough lore to work with. Still recruitment for it was very hard

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:37 AM

Make an issue too vauge and you get no where

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:37 AM

@Ikate Keda Studios go for it

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 10:38 AM

I'd love to play a Cardassion, utter devotion to the state, sacrifing the rights and justices of an individual to maintain wider societal cohession, duplicity, strong fammilies, cold utilitarianism and an utter joy in being bastards as well. I love Cardies. As for the being alone point I mean, if I knew a sustainable number of players were onbaord with it. Rather than just do it on my own and then have no one follow and no one to RP with.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:38 AM

That's a huge point, if the species' creators/leaders/managers don't stay active, the whole species/faction can dry up and die out.

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:39 AM

So if we comment on @[SARP] Wes Issue. Players swarm to the main faction, while GM's tend to go to smaller factions, you get @Edgeford's problem. No activity in what the GMs are doing, with too many players in a single place

Would you agree @[SARP] Wes ?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:39 AM

You have to have some dedicated person or people who take "ownership" of the species/group and sets and example and kind of keeps fresh stuff happening with it.

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:39 AM

@[SARP] Wes But that doesn't solve the player problem

If we look at the three main factions on SARP for our example, the thing they have in common is they are all dominated by "Human" types

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:40 AM

Finding dedication on those writing groups are difficult to hold or even find.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:40 AM

It's not a problem that the "other" side factions are not as popular as the main ones.

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:40 AM

Or well

Not main factions, but most active

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:40 AM

There is not enough eldrich abomination representation in Simms

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:40 AM

Which i why I focus on Star Army personally, that and I know the place better than all the other sites here

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 10:41 AM

@Deleted User It's abominable

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:41 AM

It's more a matter of do you have the leadership available to support all the players you have, on a ship by ship or plot by plot basis. (edited)

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:41 AM

screaches unfathomable truths

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:41 AM

So how about this question "How much of your original stories do you include difficult species? Do you NPC them also then and in what amount would you apply them into the story?"

TarHeelÉire 09-Dec-17 10:42 AM

I often include Trek species that may have only been seen in one or two episodes, and attempt to build upon their societies and cultures there.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:42 AM

I ask this question as I try to tied it towards each cases that is presented in this wonderful discussion. Being active in a sim is important, having a difficult approachable species attractive is a plus. But another approach is including them in your stories

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:44 AM

I've yet to meet a person who wanted to play one of these dudes.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:44 AM

@[SARP] Wes a beauty

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:44 AM

10/10 would smash

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 10:45 AM

What is that?

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:45 AM

A shmexy alien

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 10:45 AM

Asdie from thier, notable, appearance, what are thier other distinguishable traits? (edited)

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:45 AM

They're called Graxlat, they're a species of trash-digging tinkerers.

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:46 AM

I watched alien at a young age it ruined me forever

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:46 AM

They have pockets in their skin they use for storage.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:47 AM

In their skins, that is unique

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:47 AM

Sometimes they get a really bad form of alien herpes that makes them ooze sulfuric acid.

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:47 AM

Kangaroos though

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:47 AM

Good point

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:47 AM

Taking inspiration from reality does not reduce the uniqueness of the end product

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 10:47 AM

@[SARP] Wes Herpes?

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:48 AM

Otherwise, nothing would truely be unique

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:48 AM

You don't want Graxlat herpes. Trust me.

Griff 09-Dec-17 10:48 AM

Just look at the Horta. That’s one unique species I’d love to write.

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:49 AM

Well, @[SARP] Wes I don't think anyone would want to excrete sulferic acid XD

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 10:49 AM

My knowledge of the Breen is pretty much limited to DS9 but we know just enough about them from that to know they are very interesting, capable and with alot of mystery about them. But there is so much left unexplored that you can play about with. They would be fun

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:50 AM

That is a very good point @Edgeford

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:50 AM

There's such a thing as too much freedom in my mind

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:52 AM

Ohhh we are getting to the end, lets squaze oneeee more in it! "After hearing this discussion, would you try a different species now rather then the common onces? If so, what would you like to try and why?"

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:52 AM

No, I'm good

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 10:52 AM

It can leave you with blank page syndrome, the hardest words to write are the first. But, if you focus on one area at a time it can be done. THough building a whole culture from the void is intimidating. So with the Breen I would start with the suits and what we can speculate about thier biology from there. Then, we can make guesses about thier homeworld and how those environmental conditions might inform thier culture

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:53 AM

How would you feel if canon was changed and you had to retcon all of the effort though?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:53 AM

Well, I'm a GM, so technically I play every species that shows up in my RP. But for my main character I think I'll stick with ones that are iconic for the factions I manage.

I'm kind of attached!

3

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:54 AM

I'm comfortable making my own species in my own works, but if I'm RPing in an established setting I'll stay core

Griff 09-Dec-17 10:54 AM

Meow. 0_0

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:55 AM

I'll just be boring!

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 10:56 AM

is flattened by the table

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:56 AM

This was a fun panel, thanks everyone for coming and thank you to our host!

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 10:56 AM

I'm willing to RP almost anything that has some degree of relatability (ussualy through a bit personality and culture rather than apperance. The whole exagerated aspect of humanity thing) and that has reliable activity

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:56 AM

I would happily play other species if as a creator I didn't have to worry so much about my species being represented

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:57 AM

@frog, you okay buddy?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 10:57 AM

So you're asking that as a creator you feel you have to play the thing you made to get them in the public eye and set the example?

Camila 09-Dec-17 10:57 AM

┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 10:57 AM

pries himself off the heavy table

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:58 AM

We better get some xrays done to make sure you've not broken anything

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:58 AM

I feel it would be my responcibility to ensure that as a creator I try and set an example of how my species is played, yes @[SARP] Wes which means that I have less time to explore other options around me despite how much I ma want too

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 10:58 AM

This discussion was very productive, very active and thank you all for contribution. I did my best to keep this wonderful discussion in line! Even I have to say, it is quite difficult haha. But hope everyone enjoyed and we know now that the smaller creators need help from bigger organizations to make difficult approached species more attractive by rich information and maybe beautiful art from @[SARP] Wes

Thanks for the assistance @Ikate Keda Studios and all for the input! I hope you will all enjoy Fall Fest even more in the next discussion!

3

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 10:58 AM

Thank you!

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 10:58 AM

Thank you @RaWolfe

2

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 10:58 AM

pets the doggo

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:00 AM

Looking forward to this next panel here too!

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:00 AM

Welcome everyone to "A Community of Universes!

This topic is directed mostly at those coming from fleets, but it can apply to individual simms as well. A Simm’s universe is a vast and wonderful place. It is easy, for the most part, to integrate the universes between two sims. But, by the time you get to five, ten, or fifty, it’s a challenge. What steps has your group taken to maintain and share the events from your shared universe?

3

I know for an organization like Bravo Fleet, it can be a massive challenge. Sims are coming and going all the time, same with it's player base.

Go ahead, @mynameisrayb

I hope I didn't cut you off.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:04 AM

One of the things we do is have a central place where all plots are able to share their happenings, which we do with a wiki. Also we have an in-character news forum where anyone can post the latest events from their RP as a news story.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:06 AM

That's an excellent example, @[SARP] Wes

and I know you're doing a session on it later.

mynameisrayb 09-Dec-17 11:06 AM

In STF, our Gamemasters run the sims, so while we do have 6 fleets with 4-6 ships each, we have maybe 10-12 active gamemasters. Plus, we have a defined universe set in 2393, or post VOY. We try and use cannon as a base, but we don't allow the use of cannon characters or ships, unless it's the GM using them. So I thank our GMs for keeping us all in one piece. lol We also have various departments such as the Gamemaster Dept and Engineering Dept that keeps us up to date on the current ships, and simms.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:07 AM

I know there are groups that like the interaction and interconnectivity. Bravo Fleet has managed to pull off both. For some of our sims, we just share a quadrant. For a group like our Task Force 93, they've got the challenge of maintaining the Romulan and Klingon Empires

Such actions require a lot of conversation and coordination.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:07 AM

Yes it does

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:07 AM

What sort of platforms or techniques are required to keep everyone connected?

What works? What doesn't?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:08 AM

What doesn't work is expecting people from one plot to read the events of all the other plots/RPs/ships in the fleet. That takes up too much time for them, so it's best to somehow get summarized notes to the group.

If tabletop, this would be basically your campaign log and note-taking.

Camila 09-Dec-17 11:09 AM

A well written wiki with an area for mission critical posts is very informative and helps new players find their way around an established sim and allows them to integrate better. Information on the various departments, missions, etc is far better than entering in blindly and hoping to find a place to fit in.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:10 AM

As Task Force Commanding Officer of Task Force 93, I got in my hands as a half working product that had so many stories and opions that you could go mental. I used my personal experience as Humanresource employee (so my real life work does come handy lol) to get things clear and to a point. What I experienced over the year is that communication is the upmost importance and keep doing that with everything that is going on. your game masters have problems? Let them hear about it, let them know that you are there for them. Be supportive and involve them in the development of the stories.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:10 AM

And you want to start things with a quick recap of what's happening. "After the attack on the main depot, the isolated crew of the ship is forced to gather weapons and supplies from an old emergency outpost in the outer rim."

Camila 09-Dec-17 11:11 AM

Well said, @RaWolfe

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:12 AM

@RaWolfe is there a fine line between communication and dictating?

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:13 AM

I tried quite both to see what triggers a Gamemaster to do what is required, of course there are other values in play when it comes to communications. But the most focus is to keep that communication going, but dictating is a required evil and only use something like that if you really need it.

Elena 09-Dec-17 11:13 AM

I do monthly chronicles summarizing in a gossip media style what happened in each thread

Giving also the link to said thread for curious

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:15 AM

What format do you use to simm, @Elena?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:16 AM

In a shared universe, events in one plot will affect events in other plots. So it's possible that the plans of one GM will be derailed by something outside of their plot. For this reason on Star Army we have a GM planning forum where all GM are required to post summaries of their future plot plans that way even if that happens, at least the affected GM will see it coming in advance and will have time to react and change their plans. Or sometimes they work out something so they don't pull out the carpet from under each other. "Is there a way you could use another planet instead?" "Sure!"

Elena 09-Dec-17 11:16 AM

I don;t simm. I roleplay. My site is on jcink (edited)

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:16 AM

Ahh jcink forums (Right?)

@[SARP] Wes yea we, bravo fleet, do monthly reports that the Gamemasters have to turn in every month. This is something I uses as tool to update the story lore, to see the status of the sim and help out where is needed.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:17 AM

Simming is basically roleplay, but it's a jargon that Star Trek roleplays use. I guess it could be argued that simming's goal is simulate life on a starship.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:18 AM

True.

It's just the term I'm used to.

I'll try to stick with "write" moving forward.

Elena 09-Dec-17 11:18 AM

Yes, but simm is a videogame. Someone showed me. It is different from roleplaying

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:19 AM

All right. There are dirty words when it comes to Simm/game management, and this particular one begins with A. Activity. Not all games move at the same pace. What are the best ways to manage timelines between games, especially those that move at different paces?

Elena 09-Dec-17 11:20 AM

Fluid time and a boardwide calendar

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:20 AM

Could you elaborate that @Elena ? (edited)

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:20 AM

Well, the way I do it is I make GMs put it obviously what the expectations of pace are, that way all their players can be on the same page. Also they put how long you have to go before your character will get NPCed or dropped to keep the plot moving.

Elena 09-Dec-17 11:21 AM

This is the board calendar. It shows in story sequence each thread, how the story should be read. So people check it before starting a new thread, to know when their ship is on what island, what others do at the same time, etc. http://beforethemast.b1.jcink.com/index.php?showtopic=154

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:21 AM

@[SARP] Wes so sticking to the rules and moving the story?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:21 AM

I don't agree that simming is videogaming. All the "simming" folks I know are posting on forums to play, or in SMS portals

Elena 09-Dec-17 11:22 AM

What I saw was video and still called sim.

Someone showed me.

And forums are RPG...

Not sure what SMS portals are.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:22 AM

Guys, let's not argue about what a "simm" is. Each group has its own terminology. We are here to focus on the craft of roleplaying.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:22 AM

Simulation Management System

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:22 AM

Blackwolf: You basically got to keep the train rolling. If you wait forever for everyone dude to post, your plot can only move as the slowest place, who may never actually post.

1

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:23 AM

Oh I totally agree with that @[SARP] Wes but what is a reasonable waiting time?

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:23 AM

So, @[SARP] Wes, how long is too long?

Elena 09-Dec-17 11:23 AM

And also, given the board calendar, people can start a thread in the current month and in any past month, but not in the next months. This is called fluid time. (edited)

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:23 AM

Before you skipp them

heh @[22] greenfelt reads my mind haha

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:23 AM

he does.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:23 AM

SMS is kind of like a content management system but oriented for running a star trek ship plot. You can post RP posts and it keeps track of the crew roster, etc.

Elena 09-Dec-17 11:24 AM

Like Nova?

[22] MBremer/K'Temoc 09-Dec-17 11:24 AM

Yes

mynameisrayb 09-Dec-17 11:24 AM

We generally hold sims in Pre-Sim, Post-Sim, Alt Timeline, or current.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:24 AM

Exactly like Nova.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:24 AM

Oh, that's interesting, @mynameisrayb. How's that work?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:25 AM

Greenfelt: The GM and players should agree as a group on some frequency that works for them.

Say, one post a week, for an example

I used to do once every two days for my RP but it's slowed down so it's been adjusted.

mynameisrayb 09-Dec-17 11:26 AM

So far it works okay, but it's mainly used for side sims, since our main sim is always held in current time

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:27 AM

My universe has a special calendar (315 day Yamataian calendar) but our years line up 1-to-1 with IRL

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:27 AM

"Slowed down" Ain't that the awful truth.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:28 AM

Activity, if I look at the USS Tornado is something I use the rules as force hand (like @[SARP] Wes said, after one week not posting you get a warning or something) and I would use plot twist to keep the story interesting, but also allow my players to give their input or rather freedom to change the plot to a certain hight

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:28 AM

It's only slowed down because I have too many players so it's a herculean task to make GM posts and respond to them all, and because I spend so much time adminning and putting out fires that it cuts into my RP writing time.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:28 AM

Here's my next question, and this is something that I've seen groups struggle with. You might have, say, 3 games working on three different angles on a joint storyline. One sim stalls out and dies. What happens with the abandoned plotline?

Elena 09-Dec-17 11:28 AM

For us it has slowed down since we have remained a few and they are busy in real life.

mynameisrayb 09-Dec-17 11:29 AM

I'm not sure I've ever had to worry about a sim dying, unless the command crew or GM just weren't active

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:29 AM

Some staffer will have to basically come in and take control of the abadoned parts or the RP.

Elena 09-Dec-17 11:29 AM

We sink the ship

The survivors get reassigned

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:29 AM

On group level I would say that I as Gamemaster would addept towards the story and see what can be salavage. On TF level I would try to relocated the story to another location, as @Elena said, reassign them

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:30 AM

Yeah, that can be an effective way of eliminating loose baggage, I had one guy go inactive in the middle of a firefight so I simply blew his character's brains out all over the active PCs

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:30 AM

Gross, yet effective.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:30 AM

Talk about plottwist

Griff 09-Dec-17 11:30 AM

Blimey Wes, that’s brilliant.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:30 AM

LOL

Elena 09-Dec-17 11:31 AM

Yes, I had people killed, kidnapped, reassigned and sent home, wounded and sent to hospital to recover, etc

mynameisrayb 09-Dec-17 11:31 AM

now that is nice lol

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:31 AM

The sad part is, even though this is a hobby, real life happens to us all.

No one, when they step up to run a game, ever anticipates that they might have a major life change in 6-12 months after they start.

mynameisrayb 09-Dec-17 11:32 AM

We try not to kill characters unless they're npc, since we have people that leave and return

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:32 AM

I like that method, @Elena

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:32 AM

@Elena getting hit by a cannon ball does really apply to you

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:32 AM

The standard practice is to send the inactive character on some other assignment, like going to a training school or having to go help on some specialized task.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:32 AM

In fact, we in Bravo Fleet have a policy. Characters are property of the player, not the sim/game or the GM. Therefore, if the player leaves, the character is just written out.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:32 AM

Like "Oh, Johnson? He got assigned to load boxes at the depot. Sucks." (edited)

Elena 09-Dec-17 11:32 AM

@[SARP] Wes , soimetimes that works, sometimes that doesn't. And battles need plot fodder too

When it doesn't work (eg pirates, privateers, who aren't functioning like Navy with reassigning and so), killed/ lost at sea/ kidnapped/ etc works better

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:33 AM

Stuck in box land

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:33 AM

Amazon Warehouse!

2

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:34 AM

Nope! A Star Army one!

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:34 AM

Star Amazon?

Camila 09-Dec-17 11:34 AM

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:35 AM

All right, Trekkies, Trekkers... It’s time to mention the Dirty “C” word… canon. Since 2002, we have not seen anything “new” on screen. How do you map out and continue a universe fifteen years after CBS’s last visual aid?

mynameisrayb 09-Dec-17 11:36 AM

While STF is based on canon, our ships aren't canon, they're player made

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:36 AM

This also applies on other Genres, well Star Wars aside...they are getting enough canon stuff

mynameisrayb 09-Dec-17 11:36 AM

https://www.star-fleet.com/webb/node/757159 <--- the ship I created

Its_Louis 09-Dec-17 11:36 AM

Indeed STF If a wonderful place @mynameisrayb

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:36 AM

Greenfelt: What about Star Trek Discovery?

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:37 AM

@[SARP] Wes for the purposes of this discussion, we'll be sticking to the post-TNG universe

Camila 09-Dec-17 11:37 AM

I like to make small introductions to new technology considering the fact that Starfleet should always be advancing. I feel that stagnation for the sake of canon limits what Starfleet is all about. The old argument of "It's not canon" puts players inside a box considering how long it's been since the last major movie came out in the Prime Timeline.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:37 AM

Okay, Star Trek Online added some canon.

"soft" canon

(Also the novel tie-in, Needs of the Many)

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:39 AM

The trouble I've always had with STO is that I have terrible internet.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:39 AM

A good example is the community of Mass Effect, they had to wait quite a bit for new material but life there continued. Plots were created, factions were build or lost, wars errupted and resolved later on. The only thing that did not really change is the fact that the map did not change that much.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:39 AM

So, as a viewer, I find it difficult to accept STO as canon because I have no way to play, watch or experience its events.

Carde 09-Dec-17 11:40 AM

I always moved on with the thoughts of warming relations between the Federation and the Star Empire which in turn would cool the realtions a bit with the Klingons leaving it all in a very complicated state of things.

Camila 09-Dec-17 11:40 AM

@[22] greenfelt, at the same time, you have access to their wiki and what they've been introducing. Aren't you tempted to use some of that for your game(s)?

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:41 AM

While I have access to it, STO's gameplay begins in 2409. My sim is set in 2388.

Carde 09-Dec-17 11:41 AM

As for STO I ingore the whole thing and shall not go into it more than that for I shall simply rant which does not benefit this discussion at all.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:41 AM

Still, let's circle back to the question... How do you map out and continue a universe fifteen years after CBS’s last visual aid?

I know @mynameisrayb gave a great example earlier.

How do you come to such conclusions/advancements there?

And how far, as a group, do you allow things to "grow"?

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:43 AM

Lots of discussion, sounds bad I know but having feedback from your community is the best thing you can do in regards of let say Discovery. You can set the stone, but in the end it is the community that requires to play in such universe

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 11:43 AM

its something we're honestly working on ourselves. So curious to see how others are doing it.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:43 AM

For example

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:43 AM

I'm definitely trying to save a few things for the "Star Trek: Beyond Nemesis" discussion.

So I'm trying to tread lightly for now

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 11:44 AM

It would be good to have a summary of what's happened in your universe since then.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:44 AM

I know, one resource that's been essential for Bravo Fleet has been a shared repository of information: Our Infobase.

We've spent a lot of time this year cleaning up a massive mess with our history and making it presentable.

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 11:45 AM

Has anyone had luck just redefining points of emphasis and letting folks run with that. A sort of rough framework that they can color in the lines on?

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:47 AM

In TF93 I had four different plots, that effected about 12 groups. I had to reorder and revision those to get a focus and grip of what was going on. So the first thing is to have a solid foot on the ground of what you want to play in. I gave a rundown towards my gamemasters and stated that they can choose what they find ....attractive and got potential for years to come. 3/4 made it out in that poll. The second phase is to get your players involved in the development of those stories, what I did was to make arc teams that focus on each story and give them the general task to expand that lore, create things and go from there. Plus every story that every group is doing, I add towards the task force lore. It is a heavy job and it weary, but if I look at the results I am very glad with it. Does that help a bit @Sepandiyar ?

mynameisrayb 09-Dec-17 11:48 AM

We still use the most updated map from canon, then add where our fleets are based off the types of sims we do. (example, Infinite fleet would be between the romulan and klingon border)

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:50 AM

@mynameisrayb that is a good way of keeping it stable and going. What other ways can you put active to get this going? I mean are there other methods that already stated that helps in keeping a story going?

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 11:50 AM

That does. @RaWolfe Thanks.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:50 AM

@Sepandiyar I am still busy with that process (year further haha)

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:52 AM

We're winding down for the hour... does anyone have a question they'd like to ask?

mynameisrayb 09-Dec-17 11:53 AM

of course, our sims now tend to meet new species that aren't canon. For instance, the Flea'tan or Rec'tel

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:53 AM

I think developing new species are vital to expanding the universe.

You can't keep reusing the same ones.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:54 AM

@mynameisrayb are they minor powers or rather a fleet plot?

mynameisrayb 09-Dec-17 11:55 AM

We'll these species are used from fleet to fleet, but they are added to our species database as to make them official

1

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:56 AM

Very cool.

We're running out of time everyone? Any last comments or questions?

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 11:56 AM

Thank youf or the wonderful host of this session @[22] greenfelt

and everyone for their contribution to this :3

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:57 AM

Agreed! This has been fantastic!

Again, 24-48 hours after the event, chat logs will be posted for all to read.

1

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 11:57 AM

Take a few extra minutes if you need to

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 11:57 AM

Thank you all for participating.

We've got an overflow room too, @CaptRavenfall.

Our moderator for the Trivia session is going to be a little late. I'll be starting this in a moment as soon as I access the questions.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:02 PM

Oh, I got them

Standby...energizing

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 12:02 PM

Sweet!

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:02 PM

I'm ready to lead thiz

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:02 PM

Everyone ready?

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:03 PM

I have them keyed and ready

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:03 PM

3

2

1

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 12:03 PM

..........

Space.

The Final Frontier.

These are the wait periods for the Star Trek: Trivia Session.

Our mission...

To answer questions.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:03 PM

In the epsidode "The Man Trap," what is the creature attempting to extract from the crew's bodies?

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 12:03 PM

To seek out alternatives and rare factoids....

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:04 PM

salt

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 12:04 PM

To nerdly answer what no one has answered before....

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:04 PM

Jme!

Scores: JME 1

Question 2:

Man, this dang excel spreadsheet is trying to paste as a photo

TSCN 09-Dec-17 12:05 PM

Lol

[22] MBremer/K'Temoc 09-Dec-17 12:05 PM

What is true

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:05 PM

I got it Wes

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:05 PM

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 12:05 PM

....

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:05 PM

The only Enterprise crewmember Charlie X respects and will listen to is whom?

[22] MBremer/K'Temoc 09-Dec-17 12:06 PM

Janice Rand

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:06 PM

Janie Rand

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:06 PM

My answer sheet has a different answer

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:07 PM

That is correct try again

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:07 PM

Possibly Kirk

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:07 PM

Kirk! JME

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:08 PM

I guess love interest =/= respect >.<

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:08 PM

Wes keep up with the correct answers and let's work together

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:08 PM

By the way, I looked over these and they're all TOS questions so put your Spock red visors on

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:08 PM

nice

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:08 PM

Thy are all season one tos

[GEC] Kai1701E 09-Dec-17 12:08 PM

Im out then.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:08 PM

Scores: JME 2

3. In the pilot episode, "Where No Man Has Gone Before," Captain Kirk's middle initial is listed as what?

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:08 PM

R

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:09 PM

Shayne gets a point!

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:09 PM

Oh there's Shayne >.>

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:09 PM

Scores: JME 2, Shayne 1

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:09 PM

Woot.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:09 PM

The events of "The Naked Time" were repeated in a future episode of what later Star Trek series?

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:09 PM

Next Generation

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:09 PM

The Next Generation.

Dangit.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:10 PM

JME got it first

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:10 PM

Quick fingers, there.

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:10 PM

I'm usually the one writing the questions

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:10 PM

Scores: JME killing it with 3, Shayne of the Slow Fingers with 1

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:10 PM

Indeed.

Ouch!

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:10 PM

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:10 PM

Now it's on.

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:10 PM

Player Three has entered the match.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:10 PM

In "The Enemy Within," Kirk is split into two Kirks, a one and a _ one.

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:10 PM

female and male

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:10 PM

Good and evil

?

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:11 PM

Shayne

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:11 PM

Shayne

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:11 PM

oh, man, wrong episode

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:11 PM

Meek and aggressive.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:11 PM

Scores: JME 3, Shayne 2

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:11 PM

@Griff I'd take that too.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:11 PM

6. In "Mudd's Women," what does the Venus Drug do?

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:11 PM

Makes them look younger

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:11 PM

make people seem more beautiful

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:12 PM

Make someone more susceptible to seduction.

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:12 PM

I'd give that to Jme, if it were up to me.

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:12 PM

...But yeah, Jme is right.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:12 PM

I think I got to go with Jme's answer, technically

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:12 PM

Agreed.

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:12 PM

::doffs cap::

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:12 PM

Score: JME 4, Shayne 2

In "What are Little Girls Made Of," we first see this type of cybernetic being in the Star Trek universe.

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:12 PM

Android

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:13 PM

Android

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:13 PM

DIng!

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:13 PM

android

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:13 PM

Bugger.

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:13 PM

::Cracks fingers.:: Slow indeed.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:13 PM

Score: JME 4, Shayne 3

In "Miri," the crew finds a planet inhabited entirely by what?

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:13 PM

Children

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:13 PM

Right!

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:13 PM

he got it. I'm not even going for it ::chuckle::

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:13 PM

::Doffs cap.::

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:13 PM

Score: Jme 4, Shayne 4 (edited)

3

2

1

In "Dagger of the Mind," Spock employs what special Vulcan move for the second time?

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:14 PM

Nerve pinch

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:14 PM

vulcan nerve pince

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:14 PM

Right

Score: JME 4, Shayne 5

3

2

1

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:15 PM

Bloomin ipad...slow as hell..

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:15 PM

In "The Corbomite Maneuver," Balok is played by Clinton Howard, brother of what famous director?

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:15 PM

ron howartd

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:15 PM

Ron howard

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:15 PM

howard

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:15 PM

Confound it!

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:15 PM

What do you guys think, should I take the typo one?

lol

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:15 PM

I’d say yes.

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:15 PM

Yes.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:15 PM

Ron Hogwarts

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:15 PM

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:15 PM

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:15 PM

You're a wizard, Ron.

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:16 PM

yes!

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:16 PM

Score: JME 5, Shayne 5

3

2

1

What crewmember hijacks the Enterprise in "The Menagerie"?

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:16 PM

Spock

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:16 PM

Spock

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:16 PM

Spock

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:16 PM

Right. Point to Shayne for getting it first

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:16 PM

oh now we have Rich in on this? >.>

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:16 PM

Score: JME 5, Shayne 6

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:16 PM

After I figured out my time zone conversion...

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:17 PM

Twice the challenge, double the glory.

Also, hi!

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:17 PM

Stressful. This is why I write the questions.

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:17 PM

hi!

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:17 PM

3

2

1

In "The Conscience of the King," the former leader of a massacre is now leading a what?

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:17 PM

theatre troupe

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:17 PM

Shakespeare company

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:17 PM

Ma fingers! De failed me.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:17 PM

JME

Rahman is right too

Score: JME 6, Shayne 6

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:18 PM

Jme was more concise

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:18 PM

3

2

1

In "Balance of Terror," we first see this technology later commonly used by both the Klingons and the Romulans.

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:18 PM

Cloaking device

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:18 PM

cloaking device

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:18 PM

Cloaking devic

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:18 PM

Cloaking devic

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:19 PM

Cloaking cervix

Wait...no...

1

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:19 PM

The same exact typo. Now that's a new one.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:19 PM

Rahman!

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:19 PM

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:19 PM

"Hit enter! hit enter faster!"

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:19 PM

Score: JME 6, Shayne 6, Rahman 1

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:19 PM

I'm coming after you JME

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:19 PM

::Sniff.::

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:19 PM

3

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:19 PM

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:19 PM

2

1

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:19 PM

You too Shayne

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:19 PM

In "Shore Leave," which series regular is killed only to be brought back to life?

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:20 PM

Mccoy

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:20 PM

Ding

Score: JME 6, Shayne 7, Rahman 1

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:20 PM

I was about to write scotty and then realized that was another episode.

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:20 PM

yeah, Apollo shot him

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:20 PM

I wonder if nearly every TOS character has died at some point

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:21 PM

Yup.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:21 PM

3

2

1

In the episode of same name, what shuttle named after a famous astronomer is featured prominently?

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:21 PM

Gallieo

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:21 PM

The galeloe seve

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:21 PM

Galileo

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:21 PM

galieo

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:21 PM

JME!

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:21 PM

What did I write?!

1

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:21 PM

Grr. I don’t stand a chance on a tablet.

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:22 PM

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:22 PM

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:22 PM

Score: JME 7, Shayne 7, Rahman 1

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:24 PM

I have a relatively obscure TOS question to put to you folks, if you like.

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:24 PM

Shoot.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:24 PM

3

2

1

The video game "Star Trek: Judgment Rites" was based off of what character from the episode "The Squire of Gothos"?

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:24 PM

Trelane

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:24 PM

Trelane

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:24 PM

Trelane

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:24 PM

NO!

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:24 PM

Rahman!

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:24 PM

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:24 PM

Hahah

The NOOOO is real

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:24 PM

Dangit, Rahman! You're making me look bad in front of people!

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:24 PM

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:25 PM

If Rahman enters a pool, does he use a Rhaman noodle?

1

Score: JME 7, Shayne 7, Rahman 2

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:25 PM

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:25 PM

::Dies slightly inside.::

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:25 PM

Watch out Shayne, you do too good and you're writing the questions in June

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:25 PM

wes any more questions?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:25 PM

3

2

1

In what episode do we first see the Gorn?

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:25 PM

Arena

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:25 PM

Arena

POO.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:26 PM

I got 28, Raven

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:26 PM

So close...

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:26 PM

@Jme You wouldn't subject SB118 to that level of terror and frustration, would you?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:26 PM

Score: JME 7, Shayne 8, Rahman 2

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:26 PM

@Griff Very close indeed!

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:26 PM

3

2

1

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:26 PM

although chronologically enterprise

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:26 PM

What type of celestial body sends the Enterprise hurling back in time in "Tomorrow is Yesterday"?

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:26 PM

Black hole

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:26 PM

Gateway of tomorrow

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:27 PM

Black hole

?

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:27 PM

::scratches head::

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:27 PM

Black star... or something? Memory hazy.

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:27 PM

...Guardiab if Forever

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:27 PM

Shayne!

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:27 PM

*Guardian of Forever.

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:27 PM

if terror and frustrastion is what you want come visit my ship

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:27 PM

...Eh?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:27 PM

Score: JME 7, Shayne 9, Rahman 2

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:27 PM

Wait so was it black star?

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:27 PM

Wait, hang on!

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:27 PM

it was Black star

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:27 PM

or black hole? Griff got that one@

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:28 PM

Yeah. Odd, huh?

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:28 PM

Oh

wow

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:28 PM

that was the one where a jet dissapears.

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:28 PM

that's not a real thing is it?

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:28 PM

yeah, all the episodes are mixing together

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:28 PM

3

2

1

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:28 PM

But...:(

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:28 PM

In "Court Martial," who is on trial?

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:28 PM

Kirk

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:28 PM

Kirk

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:28 PM

Kirk

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:28 PM

Kirk

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:28 PM

Shayne!

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:28 PM

NOOOOO

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:28 PM

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:28 PM

It's turn for the NOOOOO

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:29 PM

Score: JME 7, Shayne 10, Rahman 2

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:29 PM

Shouldn't have called me slow fingers.

2

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:29 PM

3

2

1

In "Return of the Archons," the crew find a society controlled by what entity?

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:29 PM

Landru

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:29 PM

Computer

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:29 PM

JME

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:29 PM

YES

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:29 PM

@Jme Nice one!

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:29 PM

Score: JME 8, Shayne 10, Rahman 2

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:30 PM

Aw. I should’ve gotten a point for the black hole one. Ah well.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:30 PM

3

2

1

In "Space Seed," what planet are Khan and his followers left on?

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:30 PM

Ceti Alpha V

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:30 PM

Ceti Alpha 5

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:30 PM

Score: JME 8, Shayne 10, Rahman 3

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:31 PM

Hold on one second.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:31 PM

OK

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:31 PM

I don't mean to interrupt, but was Griff supposed to get a point?

I just want to make sure there's no confusion.

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:31 PM

yes

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:31 PM

WORKING computer voice

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:31 PM

Computed, dear.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:32 PM

No, Shayne was the first to say Black Star. (edited)

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:32 PM

Ceti Alpha 6 exploded, five months after we were left here...

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:32 PM

Back on earth, 300 years ago, I was a prince...

::trumpets::

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:32 PM

with power over millions

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:33 PM

Hmm. Okay, then. Never mind. Sorry for interrupting.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:33 PM

Tekken voice Get Ready For the Next Battle

3

2

1

In "A Taste of Armageddon," the people of Eminiar VII have made what neat and clean?

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:33 PM

War

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:33 PM

War

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:33 PM

suicide

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:33 PM

War

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:33 PM

@Jme That too

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:33 PM

GRR! SHAYNE!!!!!!!!

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:33 PM

1

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:33 PM

Rahman coming form behind with the rising score (edited)

Score: JME 8, Shayne 10, Rahman 4

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:33 PM

wait, I think shayne got that one

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:34 PM

By a hair.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:34 PM

Oh damn, it was so fast even I missed it

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:34 PM

Sorry!

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:34 PM

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:34 PM

Score: JME 8, Shayne 11, Rahman 3

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:34 PM

so. fast.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:34 PM

3

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:34 PM

We'll rename him the Flash

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:34 PM

2

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:34 PM

Sincere thanks for spotting that and being a sport, @Rahman

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:34 PM

1

In "This Side of Paradise," what character falls in love?

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:34 PM

SPock

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:34 PM

Spock

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:34 PM

Spcok

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:35 PM

Shayne

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:35 PM

must... type... faster... and more accurate...

1

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:35 PM

I didn’t have a clue on that one.

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:35 PM

Sp-cok! Vulcan chicken noise.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:35 PM

Score: JME 8, Shayne 12, Rahman 3

3

2

1

"The Devil in the Dark" is which Star Trek actor's favorite episode?

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:35 PM

walter koenig

Wraith754 09-Dec-17 12:35 PM

mark hamill

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:35 PM

Shatner

William Shatner.

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:36 PM

Leonard Nimoy?

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:36 PM

Deforest Kelly

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:36 PM

Shayne

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:36 PM

huh

Wraith754 09-Dec-17 12:36 PM

takei

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:36 PM

did not know that

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:36 PM

Fair play, I was guessing.

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:36 PM

Very difficult to understand why that's true- his father died during its filming.

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:36 PM

It's a good episode

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:36 PM

A phenominal episode.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:36 PM

Score: JME 8, Shayne 13, Rahman 3

3

2

1

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:37 PM

I am determined to get at least one point.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:37 PM

In "Errand of Mercy," the Organian Peace Treaty is signed between the Federation and who?

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:37 PM

Klingons

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:37 PM

Klingons

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:37 PM

Klingon Empire

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:37 PM

Kilimgkns

...What the heck did I type?

2

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:37 PM

aww, poor griff, I know you're trying brotha

2

Score: JME 8, Shayne 14, Rahman 3

3

2

1

In the "Alternative Factor," what guest character enters in and out of the universe?

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:38 PM

Lan-something or other.

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:38 PM

Hmmm

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:38 PM

Lazarus

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:38 PM

JME

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:38 PM

That's what it was!

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:38 PM

Nice.

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:38 PM

Well done.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:38 PM

Score: JME 9, Shayne 14, Rahman 3

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 12:39 PM

@Shayne is on fire!

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:39 PM

Ah! Put it out!

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:39 PM

3

2

1

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:39 PM

But being on fire is generally...bad.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:39 PM

In "Operation: Annihilate!," what is Captain's Kirk's brother's name?

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:39 PM

samuel

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:39 PM

Sam

Wraith754 09-Dec-17 12:39 PM

gerorge

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:40 PM

Shaaaaaaaaayne

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:40 PM

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:40 PM

No! I feel so bad!

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:40 PM

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:40 PM

Griff freaking had it.

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:40 PM

I mean...Sam is short for Samuel...:(

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:40 PM

Curse these fingers!!!

True!

Wraith754 09-Dec-17 12:40 PM

could of swore it was goerge jr

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:40 PM

Give it to Griff- it would have taken me longer to type the full name.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:40 PM

Score: JME 9

, Shayne 15

, Rahman 3

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:40 PM

[RPGW] beeman 09-Dec-17 12:41 PM

GG!

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:41 PM

w00t w00t!

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:41 PM

YAY

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:41 PM

i have a few more questions to keep us busy for the remainder of our session

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:41 PM

That's all I got for now, but if you want more trivia @CaptRavenfall has some more questions!

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:41 PM

I had a great deal of fun! Thank you for making this possible!Still think that last point should go to Griff.

No offense

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:41 PM

Thank you so much for organizing the game!

I'm off to see what's going on in the other room

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:42 PM

Indeed- extremely enjoyable!

Rahman 09-Dec-17 12:42 PM

congrats, Shayne

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:42 PM

It doesn’t really matter Shayne, but thanks anyway.

And congrats.

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:42 PM

no ones staying for the remainder of our time

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:42 PM

Thank you both kindly.

Good game.

Jme 09-Dec-17 12:42 PM

Thank you for the trivia!

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:42 PM

i have more

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:43 PM

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/George_Samuel_Kirk

George Samuel Kirk

George Samuel Kirk was a male Human scientist in the 23rd century. He was married to Aurelan and they had three sons, including Peter. His brother was Starfleet Captain James T. Kirk, who was the...

1

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:43 PM

Oh.

That changes things.

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:43 PM

We were both wrong.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:43 PM

Soooo...someone gave me the wrong answer on my sheet, eh?

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:43 PM

That's right! He calls him Sam, but only Kirk does that.

@Griff Guess we were.

Who woulda thunk it?

Court Martial now in session.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:44 PM

I hereby declare all you guys to be winners

(edited)

1

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:44 PM

D'aw.

Thank you very much for running this, @[SARP] Wes

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:44 PM

who was the first captain of the Enterprise N.C.C-1701?

Wraith754 09-Dec-17 12:45 PM

pike

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:45 PM

Thanks for coming to Fallfest! It means a lot to see this many people give their time to be here today.

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:45 PM

nope

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:45 PM

April

Wraith754 09-Dec-17 12:45 PM

christopher pike

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 12:45 PM

Thanks

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:45 PM

Here’s a potentially tricky one.

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:45 PM

@[SARP] Wes Nice one.

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:46 PM

Which Constitution class starship was crewed entirely by Vulcans?

Wraith754 09-Dec-17 12:46 PM

exeter

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:46 PM

Intrepid (?)

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 12:46 PM

Next session is in 15 minutes! You can of course discussion the Trivia further here or join the discussion in #ffvii-room-two . Maybe you want to get some tast of some weird ass live rping in #ffvii-live-rp !

Griff 09-Dec-17 12:46 PM

Yup, Wes.

Wraith754 09-Dec-17 12:46 PM

......

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:47 PM

Right again, @[SARP] Wes

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:47 PM

Why was Dr. Crusher's son called Wesley?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:47 PM

His father

Wraith754 09-Dec-17 12:47 PM

bleh going back to star wars not good at trivia

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:48 PM

no it was Gene Roddenberry's middle name

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:48 PM

Oh...

Intriguing.

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:49 PM

Who was the command of Star base 11 when spock hijacked the Enterprise in order to return Captain Pike to talosIV?

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:50 PM

Mendez

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:50 PM

Commodore Stone

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:50 PM

Commodore, Jose I.

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:50 PM

shayne

[IDF] Charles Star 09-Dec-17 12:50 PM

my plan finally landed... only an hour late.

but clearly you all didn't need me!

Shayne 09-Dec-17 12:50 PM

Stone was Court Martial.

@[IDF] Charles Star Hello!

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:50 PM

yay hugs

[IDF] Charles Star 09-Dec-17 12:50 PM

thanks to Ravenfall and Wes for covering for me!!!

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:50 PM

Np

[IDF] Charles Star 09-Dec-17 12:52 PM

and it seems you know more about Star Trek ToS than I do anyway!

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:52 PM

Mark Leard was the first actor in Star trek History to protray three non-human race?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:52 PM

Vulcan

Wraith754 09-Dec-17 12:52 PM

vulcan klingon romulan

1

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:52 PM

The question was a bit confusing

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:53 PM

sorry i finished my thought but forgot to write it down

What is the maiden name of Spocks mother

Wraith754 09-Dec-17 12:53 PM

grayson

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:54 PM

what is the name of Kirk's home town? We know he is from Iowa

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:54 PM

Riverside (edited)

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:55 PM

correct

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:55 PM

http://i43.tinypic.com/xp6jqh.gif

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:56 PM

Which of the following characters has not worn the blue from the science divison?

A - Paris B- Seska C- Chakotay D-Janeway

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:56 PM

A

[IDF] Charles Star 09-Dec-17 12:56 PM

Janeway

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:57 PM

both are wrong

[IDF] Charles Star 09-Dec-17 12:57 PM

B!

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:57 PM

Janeway was a scientist, though, in her background

b

c

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:57 PM

C is correct

[IDF] Charles Star 09-Dec-17 12:57 PM

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:57 PM

Brute forcing the answers lol

[IDF] Charles Star 09-Dec-17 12:57 PM

it's one way to do it!

1

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:58 PM

we have time for one more question before the next event so lets make it a good one

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 12:58 PM

Who's that pretty Japanese yeoman?

[GEC] Kai1701E 09-Dec-17 12:59 PM

Me

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 12:59 PM

Hoshi

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 12:59 PM

What is the Borg species designation of humans?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:00 PM

The answer to mine was Tamura http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Tamura (edited)

Tamura

Yeoman Tamura was a female Human Starfleet enlisted crewmember in the 23rd century. She served in the operations division aboard the USS Enterprise in 2267 under the command of Captain James T...

2

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 01:00 PM

facepalms no comment

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:00 PM

Species 5618

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 01:00 PM

that is correct

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:01 PM

1

Fantastic Trivia round everyone.

Now I want to read about Tamura...

1

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:01 PM

great trivia session

3

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:01 PM

It's time now for "The Future Of Simming"...

Since this came up earlier, I need to offer a disclaimer.

Each group/organization has its own terms.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:02 PM

In before "X fleet IS the future of simming."

1

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:02 PM

For the purposes of this discussion.... Simming refers to the art of online role-playing.

It can be called Sims, Simms, RPs, Games, Sessions, etc.

Let's begin.

The internet is a young child, but the art of simming, or role-playing, is much, much older. From books and dice, to number generators, to keyboards and mice, the craft has transcended modern media.

But have the tools of the trade kept up with the modern world? For instance, when I started in 2003, SMS was beginning to float around, but my first experience was with SmartGroups, which has long been defunct.

In the last ten years, thanks to the smart phone, the digital landscape has transformed to fit our pockets. Has the craft made this transition?

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:04 PM

I think it has, I know that each of the sims I run are designed to be as mobile friendly as possible. Which comes in handy when traveling. Plus those who prefer the good ole email route now has it everywhere they go.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:04 PM

I think an ideal scenario would be to have a setup where people's phones get a push notification when their buddies make an RP post.

3

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:04 PM

That's a good idea

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:05 PM

I think as technology adaps we're going to find better, easier and different ways of communicating. But some people will want to also have options that are more old fashioned.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:05 PM

I want to set this up for my forum very soon.

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:05 PM

Email notifications are standard on many forums

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:05 PM

An example of this is the Nova system (I think that's what's its called, been years since I played a Nova-simm) where the system charts characters, alerts players to new additions to posts and so on

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:05 PM

I think that it's be great to rely less on emails as the email service is a third party between you and the player and your emails face competition for attention with all the rest of their emails.

1

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:06 PM

Not if you sort your emails correctly

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 01:06 PM

@Jme yes Nova System (the old SMS system) gives you a email alert that a new edit was made

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:06 PM

The point is you shouldn't have to go through emails to reach your player, you should be able to make notifications directly the way apps and Facebook does.

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:07 PM

True

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:07 PM

Nova didn't exist when I first started playing in cough 1996 cough

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:07 PM

As I mentioned earlier, I "grew up" with Smart Groups, which was an email list. I'd love to simply be able to reply to an email to add to a post, not log into a forum or site to tag.

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:07 PM

I remember when it first came on the scene and players were all "OMGz, it ALERTS US!!1!"

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:07 PM

@[SARP] Wes Tapatalk?

lola 09-Dec-17 01:07 PM

I think its massively important to keep your RP fresh and updated in all areas, newer people arent attracted to sites that look like it's still the 1990s.

2

STF,RAdmSalmon 09-Dec-17 01:07 PM

At Star-fleet, we use a bulletin Board style apparoach where each post comes after one another.

1

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 01:07 PM

@Jme back in those days it was called Yahoo and AIM groups

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:07 PM

Tapatalk is Satan.

1

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:07 PM

That would be cool, I know that when we post a new post we have notifications on our discord channels that a post has been added. Is there something that could pull from a "hook" when edits are made in Nova?

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:07 PM

Oh yeah. Ah, the Yahoo groups.

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:08 PM

I used to use Tapatalk religiously before forums really became mobile friendly.

STF,RAdmSalmon 09-Dec-17 01:08 PM

We're actually in the process of making a transition to making the site more mobile friendly with a whole new platform.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:08 PM

StarBase 118 was on Yahoo groups when I first joined back in 2010

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:08 PM

Discord has been a great method to bring RP communities together. It has replaced things like Teamspeak and IRC.

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:08 PM

Even with e-mail based Simms, you can benefit from having a good forum, a chat interface, a wiki, a website

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:08 PM

Slack is also amazing!

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:08 PM

looking back, I don't know how we managed for so long using it... horrible interface

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:08 PM

true, even yahoo and google groups were advancements, The first simms I played had mailing lists

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:09 PM

oops

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:09 PM

We used Slack for a while in my group however the price for the premimum membership and having a log of chat that doesn't disappear after 10,000 was ridiculously expensive and by member and not server.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:09 PM

@STF,RAdmSalmon new platform?

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:09 PM

And Discord is great. I can tabletop roleplay now with friends in different states or countries! This was something I thought was fantasy 10 years ago

lola 09-Dec-17 01:09 PM

Discord is massively helpful, totally changing the game

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:09 PM

I love Discord.

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:09 PM

Discord is great

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:10 PM

Being able to chat with other players before committing text to posts... it helps a lot.

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:10 PM

But what I find profound about that is it bring people together with fantastic technology - but the players are still using pen and paper.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:10 PM

Of course there was always IRC and other systems... but Discord just makes it so easy.

STF,RAdmSalmon 09-Dec-17 01:10 PM

Yes. We're using a framework called Drupal as the structure of our site.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:10 PM

Very interesting.

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:10 PM

I think we'll see something similar in simms. There will be players who still like e-mail or forum format; but they want bells and whistles to connect them even though they're using an old fashioned gaming medium

STF,RAdmSalmon 09-Dec-17 01:10 PM

In the next 8 months, we're going to be moving to a new system that's being called Exodus.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:10 PM

Quick poll... what does everyone use? Forums? Nova/SMS? Email? Private systems?

Exodus?

lola 09-Dec-17 01:11 PM

Forums

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:11 PM

Email

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:11 PM

Nova/SMS for me

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:11 PM

Or E-mail/Google groups

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 01:11 PM

Nova/SMS

STF,RAdmSalmon 09-Dec-17 01:11 PM

that's what our TECH department (site management) calls the new update.

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:11 PM

Nova, though I used to love forums.

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:11 PM

Forums, Google Groups, Email

STF,RAdmSalmon 09-Dec-17 01:11 PM

so we're a bulletin board style.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:11 PM

We use email/Google groups for 118 but I frankly just use the Google group website myself as it's just too cluttered trying to sort directly in my inbox

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:11 PM

I know Bravo Fleet has been experimenting with something called Astra, which is based on Wordpress

And Nova NextGen is still forthcoming...

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:12 PM

Rahman's more techy than me. I want everything to come to my inbox where I can put it in neat little folders and pretend it's still 2k6

1

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:12 PM

Astra is the start of an awesome system!

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:12 PM

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:13 PM

I used it for a bit on one of my sims but ran into some issues. I think once its out of its beta development it will be a great system moving forward.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:13 PM

Actually, I even have an RSS reader app on my phone and tablets that I've tied the Google groups to

it works pretty well

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:13 PM

I also refuse to upgrade from Word 2K3 #noshame

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:13 PM

and I just wish it had an LCARS interface

1

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:13 PM

That being said what BF did with their main website is phenominal and having been a member for near 15 years I think that its something I wish we had back when I was on the BFA.

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:13 PM

Oooh, that would be awesome

lola 09-Dec-17 01:13 PM

@[SB118] Rahman my site is based on LCARS :P

1

only roughly, though

but it still looks quite trek i think!

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:14 PM

There are a couple LCARS stye RSS reader apps I've but they're unfortunately very clunky to use

Elena 09-Dec-17 01:14 PM

Forum - jcink

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:14 PM

LCARS is old now

Visual displays have evolved since then.

[22] MBremer/K'Temoc 09-Dec-17 01:14 PM

SB400 also has a LCARS site, as well as a plain ol' NOVA page

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 01:14 PM

But that is the fun part, the writing communities are evolving with the time. They are modern and keep track of what players of the newer generation want to see.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:15 PM

True, @Stephen Hunter UK but even LCARS has evolved too over the years

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:15 PM

New question time... It is no coincidence that the simming community is under a big change. For many of us... it's shrinking. Could MMORPGs and other technological advancements be to blame? Or are they actually helping the community?

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:15 PM

The folks at LCARS47 have some pretty neat developments in that regard: http://www.lcars47.com/

LCARS 47

LCARS 47 is a freeware app that aims to simulate a complete canon-accurate LCARS environment.

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:15 PM

The community is still there but spread out more

lola 09-Dec-17 01:16 PM

The community exists, but it's a new generation. Many sims began some 10, maybe 20 years ago and the communities often don't know how to move with the times (that's not an insult, just an observation)

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:16 PM

I think everything now is just competing for our time

I mean, it's the same with all the new television shows that are out there

so many choices

lola 09-Dec-17 01:17 PM

Technological advancements yes, but this is something people can very much move along with if they are focused on it

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:17 PM

It's a golden age of TV

We're swimming in space shows

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:17 PM

So every form of entertainment including simming is fighting for a little sliver of free time that people have

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:17 PM

I honetly think we're going to see a simming renaissance of sorts coming up. We saw it in tabletop with the OSR

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:17 PM

I'm going to hook up a Discord integration add-on for my forum so that when you're browsing the site you can see the chat in Discord. Also Discord roles will be managed by the forum's groups

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:18 PM

You had people who played games as teens, in college, into thier twenties... and then they had kids and jobs and a lot stopped playing

1

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:18 PM

Has there been much of a revival in Trek simming since DSC started?

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:18 PM

I mean, if you look at movie theater attendance, it continues to shrink year after year

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:18 PM

Eventually those people's kids will grow up, the jobs will calm down, and they'll retire... and they want to do the things they loved

I'm slowly seeing this as players return saying things like 'my babies are teenagers now and I'm feeling a bit of an empty nest'

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:19 PM

And yeah, the Trek audience that's targeted by most simming groups is aging

Jme 09-Dec-17 01:19 PM

I think we'll see simming move to a more mature demographic that had experience with the games in college

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:19 PM

I mean, how many Kelvin timeline sims are out there? Or Discovery era?

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:21 PM

Don't honestly know

Not a Scooby

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:22 PM

Honestly, the fact that all the TNG-era shows are so easily available on streaming services has been a godsend for simming IMO

keeps that era of Star Trek in the collective consciousness

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:23 PM

Indeed, it does.

Has anyone tried anything on The Orville?

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:23 PM

I think something in the future that could help boost the collaborative writing groups are to be more collaborative, more open.

1

Arturo Maxwell 09-Dec-17 01:23 PM

lurks at the back of the room

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:24 PM

@Stephen Hunter UK I had thought about it

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:24 PM

I think sometimes we get new members who like to write as if they're on the orville

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:24 PM

Orville is great.

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:24 PM

The group that I run the whole purpose is to be a community of writers... and we are looking and always open to making new contacts with other groups and I'm hoping to bring various groups together. We have the same goals and we all have different ideas so why not support each other some more?

2

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:24 PM

I wouldn't be surprise if Orville RPs/sims pop up soon.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:25 PM

I don't think anything Orville or Discovery has started yet.

Arturo Maxwell 09-Dec-17 01:25 PM

@[SB118] Rahman I resemble that remark!

1

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:25 PM

The universe hasn't been developed enough for DSC

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:25 PM

I have no problem sending someone I think might fit better in another group than mine if I think it'll bring them more success, etc.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:25 PM

Orville should be around soon

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 01:25 PM

There isn't enough I for to do so yet

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:25 PM

Orville's at least 8 episodes in and you can watch it for free. It's already be renewed for Season 2. (edited)

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:25 PM

Here's a fun question for everyone... What is the next step in simming evolution?

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:25 PM

More stuff like Discord

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:26 PM

A social media platform designed specifically for RP.

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:26 PM

Maybe Roll20 with Discord in some form>

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:26 PM

Correction: Orville has already had its Season 1 finale air

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 01:26 PM

A new platform introduction that has died out in the past is IRC simming, I do now that UCIP and another one is still doing it in IRC. But specially to bring this back to life, I would say Discord

Arturo Maxwell 09-Dec-17 01:26 PM

I've yet to watch Orville

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 01:26 PM

I'd like to say Discord. I think soon once it can be worked out how it would be done, a sim that does it writing on Discord will be the next big new thing. As for social media, we did have Risa, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:26 PM

@Arturo Maxwell Starts in the UK next week

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:26 PM

Imagine a site like Facebook where you could have multiple personas and it would be designed to be completely IC and you could join a crew and run missions as a "person".

1

Arturo Maxwell 09-Dec-17 01:26 PM

❤

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 01:27 PM

I never had much luck with IRC

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 01:27 PM

so I would say social media for solely RPs is a while away at the moment

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:27 PM

Roll20 is very good for live games

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:27 PM

That's true Risa was an attempt at a Social Media site for RP but I meant in more of an IC use.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:27 PM

Tinder for RP character shipping

1

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:27 PM

I'm planning to run a 1960s set spy game on there soon.

@[SARP] Wes Ever played Reigns?

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:27 PM

PFFT half vulcan half klingon swipe left.

lol

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:27 PM

No.

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:28 PM

It's like Tinder meets GoT.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:28 PM

Swipe right to write smut with this character.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 01:28 PM

@Stephen Hunter UK there is also another one Roll4It on twitch, brilliant show

Elena 09-Dec-17 01:28 PM

I wouldn;t like a site on Discord or FB. It is meant to remain there for reference, in order, like it happens on forums. If google docs could be made for several people and others to read them, it is a story type I would like reading too

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:28 PM

Google Docs can

You just change the settings on the document

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:29 PM

Yep, restrict it to view only

Elena 09-Dec-17 01:29 PM

Glad to hear it is possible

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:29 PM

So, we've got integration between forums and Discord...

What sort of reliance does everyone have on chat systems like Slack and Discord in association with your games?

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 01:30 PM

I've used to RP some conversation posts

Like a character making a booking for a train journey

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:31 PM

I used to have a chatroom built directly into my forum but the community activity moved on to a Discord - first an unofficial one and then I made an official one. So after the site chat dried up I closed it and just sent people to the Discord.

[GEC] Kai1701E 09-Dec-17 01:31 PM

I think it is crucial to develop relationships between players, which again is crucial to the success of a sim

4

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:31 PM

ALso it saved me money in software and hosting costs.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:32 PM

Yeah, I think people might first come for the simming but what really makes people stick around is if they feel they're part of a community.

4

Arturo Maxwell 09-Dec-17 01:32 PM

Discord is 90% just hanging out for me, although I make use of the PM function for brainstorming and batting ideas around with people

1

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:32 PM

I personally feel highlighting the community is even more important than the writing.

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 01:33 PM

We have our main Server for starfleet where we just hang out and and keep in touch since we have member from all over the world

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 01:33 PM

Oh I agree @Stephen the community is what makes and breaks a fleet

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:33 PM

Come for the writing. Stay for the community.

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:33 PM

Or just stay for the community.

I think something that groups could move toward is even just involving fans of what we do? If you have readers that are interested in your group why can't we allow them to join in our community, our chat, our mission development?

Just because they don't actively write because they don't want to or don't have time why not value their opinion and include them in making our community bigger, happier, and better development?

Arturo Maxwell 09-Dec-17 01:35 PM

Perhaps write as a "minor" character now and then or something, if the fancy takes them?

Almost like a recurring guest character

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:36 PM

While I understand what you're saying, @Stephen, there should be a bit of a balance. Community is everything, but I personally frown on people just hanging out on my game's Discord server, which is one of the reasons why I don't give the link until you're a member. I've got members that can post every day, and members that post only once a month. The frequency doesn't bother me, but we're all there initially for the game. If the game dries up because no one writes anymore, then so will the community that was built around it.

Elena 09-Dec-17 01:37 PM

I have the possibility to interact on the c-box or on FB with the fans who read our story adn our monthly chronicle but don

t have the time to be involved in writing the story

Sometimes I brainstorm with them plot twists they want to read

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:38 PM

I personally haven't run into that issue... but I can see where that would be a concern.

Arturo Maxwell 09-Dec-17 01:38 PM

Still sounds like valuable contribution to me, Elena

Elena 09-Dec-17 01:38 PM

Of course it is!

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 01:38 PM

in relation to that @[22] greenfelt I have my Discord open to all, but I will boot someone from it if they aren't a member and haven't spoken in there for a while. I've had people join who ask questions, say they will join and then never do, so that is when I boot them

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:38 PM

I leave my discord link on my site for anyone to join.

I do prune people who haven't been active in 30 days once in a while.

Elena 09-Dec-17 01:39 PM

We don;t have discord because we are a small community and they weren't interested in discord.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:39 PM

I like the idea of engaging fans, @Elena

Elena 09-Dec-17 01:39 PM

❤

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 01:40 PM

We use our main Server for people that want to get to know people and maybe get a head start on learning what they need to do or how our site works (edited)

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:40 PM

The trouble for a lot of us Trek sims... we're a dime a dozen. If we're a fan, we're on the sim.

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:41 PM

Also a good point.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:41 PM

Much like Harry Potter RP forums.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:41 PM

You're in more a niche, where you might attract a lot of interest, you'll equally get readers and writers.

Which is awesome.

Wow, time is flying.

This is a great discussion, and I know we've all said a lot.

Does anyone have anything they'd like to add or ask?

Elena 09-Dec-17 01:42 PM

Unfortunately I get more readers than writers in the latest 2 years

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:43 PM

But it's interest all the same. I applaud you for that.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:43 PM

The future of simming and roleplaying depends on spreading the hobby as a whole, you have to meet new people to grow it. That means we all have to be socially conscious, and also good salesmen so to speak. (edited)

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:43 PM

That's an excellent point, @[SARP] Wes

FallFest brought us together today, but what happens after midnight?

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:44 PM

Is there much simming presence at actual Trek conventions?

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:44 PM

We all go our separate ways.

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 01:44 PM

We stay friends and work together to make it better

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:44 PM

How can we continued to stay connected?

And what platform(s) can we use to do this?

Intumesce 09-Dec-17 01:45 PM

We can keep this server open for one

Arturo Maxwell 09-Dec-17 01:45 PM

Right here on Discord?

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:45 PM

Personally, I don't think simming will ever die. Just the way that it is presented and practiced will.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:45 PM

Fandom looks a lot different than it did in the 1990s. Conventions that used to be attention primarily by white men are now filled with people of all kinds. Comic movies are mainstream. There are conventions in every major city. As community leaders we need to be inclusive and make sure writers know they're welcome among us.

[22] MBremer/K'Temoc 09-Dec-17 01:45 PM

Really should be 1 big 'chat channel' for simmers... even one for posting ads for our sims. With a big overall community...I mean, why not

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:45 PM

I like the idea of a huge chat.

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:45 PM

As do I

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:45 PM

Whether it's here or elsewhere.

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 01:46 PM

Me too

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 01:46 PM

Still makes me wonder why RPG-Directory has still no Discord....the win in that situation

Intumesce 09-Dec-17 01:46 PM

Why elsewhere, we can rebrand the server, create appropriate channels. Perhaps. Include channels for the larger groups as embassies

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:46 PM

It wouldn't take much to "rebrand" this server when it's done, preserve these rooms, and create new places in here to chat.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:46 PM

I just wonder @[SARP] Wes that it seems everyone knows about the concept of fan fiction and whatnot. But simming itself still seems a pretty niche activity right?

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:46 PM

@RaWolfe I think they do.

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 01:47 PM

I never thought of it like that

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:47 PM

Yeah, I hear a lot of "roleplaying forums are still around? I did that in the early 2000s, didn't know they were still a thing."

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:47 PM

So clearly then we're not making our presence really known beyond those already in the know

Intumesce 09-Dec-17 01:47 PM

Perhaps those of us active on fanfiction.net could help spread the word?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:47 PM

In the old days a lot of people found simming and roleplaying simply by following the chat or groups link from the main page of Yahoo.com but now RPs are tens of thousands of islands that rarely communicate or work together so that means events like Fallfest more important than ever.

2

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 01:48 PM

Amen wes

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:48 PM

And of course there are the general Trek forums like Trekbbs still around

Intumesce 09-Dec-17 01:48 PM

I can imagine those who use author notes drop a Discord link to the large community Discord

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 01:48 PM

@Stephen just checked their site, only discussions about the use of Discord, no prime for themselves

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:48 PM

Yeah, agreed.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:49 PM

All right, so we agree to stay connected!

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:49 PM

haha, maybe we need to think about some sort of effort to just promote simming in general

Elena 09-Dec-17 01:50 PM

@RaWolfe Rpg directory has discord. I am on it

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:50 PM

outreach to Trek fans and writers etc

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:50 PM

@RaWolfe https://discordapp.com/invite/FMextg

1

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:50 PM

in addition to our usual fleet specific recruiting

Elena 09-Dec-17 01:50 PM

Look on their side, they have the discord link

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:50 PM

@[SB118] Rahman that is definitely everyone's challenge.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:50 PM

I mean like if you think about sports

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 01:50 PM

@Stephen thanks

Stephen 09-Dec-17 01:50 PM

I used to be on it, just rejoined. lol

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:50 PM

you have in addition to individual teams, a general organization that promotes the sport itself

I know there are sister fleets and whatnot

and of course RPG directories etc

it's kind of like what we're doing here

we have fall fest

but it's geared obviously at people already simming

maybe if we also tried to target general Trekkies to come take a peek. They see it's basically just fellow fans like them already nerding out.

Do any other fleets or organizations out there do any events or outreach into the general trek community?

1

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 01:54 PM

This lol

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:54 PM

I know on 118 we've had interviews with published Trek authors or the Okudas for instance

that helps bring in new visitors at least to the site

[22] MBremer/K'Temoc 09-Dec-17 01:54 PM

We have on SB400 too, Okuda, Drexler, and Stinbach

2

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:55 PM

This honestly all dovetails with what they're talking about in the other room about recruitment

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:55 PM

I actually called Armin Shimmerman's agent and tried to book a Skype interview once.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:55 PM

Everyone, this has been an incredible discussion. Thank you all for participating. But, the discussion doesn't have to end. Those of you that want to continue on can use #ffvii-overflow to keep going.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:56 PM

But it makes sense. The future of simming depends on growth of people interested in the past time

3

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:56 PM

In just a few minutes... we'll be starting "Game Management: Dos and Don'ts."

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 01:56 PM

Perhaps next Fallfest we should schedule a lunch break lol.

2

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 01:56 PM

Lmao.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:56 PM

LOL

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 01:57 PM

2

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 01:57 PM

That's actually what I'm about to do. Step away with my family for a bit and I'll be back.

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 01:57 PM

I didn't have to leave my computer for lunch

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 01:57 PM

Sitting outside a pizza place atm myself. Hangry.

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:02 PM

@everyone welcome to the panel "Game Management: Do's and Don'ts". Welcome to the panel. For those that don't know me, I'm Leam-Mark and I've been a CO for about 10 years now. I've seen my fair share of sims come and go, and CO's come in all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, saying that their sim will last for the ages, but then months later, it shuts down because they can't handle the admin and running of the sim (for the basis of this panel). I want to share with you some Do's and Don'ts of game management that I have seen in 10 years of simming

What I've done is written a little intro to each thing we can discuss, only 2 or 3 for Do's and 2 or 3 for Don'ts.... to make this panel run smoothly, I ask that you hold off on discussing until I've given the intro, it will help to run things smoothly and we can get throught it all

2

The first big thing I want to open with is a big DO! DO Maintain Communication... not just with your crew but with you fleet. In today's simming era, we have social media and everything else, so we are always connected to each other. Sims will succeed when the CO's or command team and visitors can see that those running the sim are active. This means active communication, letting them and the public know what is going on around your sim. If you leave your crew in the dark, the public won't want to visit or join, if you let them know what is going on, you celebrate the good things then you will have a crew that is willing to go above and beyond, and people who will want to join. What do you all think about maintain communication?

Jips 09-Dec-17 02:08 PM

Communication, IMO is the most important thing on any sim, both from the command staff to the players, and players to the command staff.

3

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:09 PM

@Jips a good point there, what would you say is a good balance of communication? Once a day, once a week???

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:09 PM

I am really good at comms with my sim, with the fleet a bit less so I think beside discord here. But I send out regular PMs to my crew to update them on recent events and also to ask them for feedback on items

Jips 09-Dec-17 02:09 PM

It depends on the situation. Personally I am known to be pretty lenient with my players.

My sims run slower as a result, but I don't want my players to feel pressured as we are just playing a game.

1

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:11 PM

I recently put out a change of rules to reduce the requirements a llittle, but also made clear they would be enforced I hate nothing more than sims saying requirements are X and people who never meet them are not dealt with and hence slowing the whole sim down.

Jips 09-Dec-17 02:12 PM

I suppose I can say that I don't have any specific blueprint for communication.. but I will check in on people if I haven't heard from them for a while, or if post tagging is lagging.

1

Moss 09-Dec-17 02:12 PM

I use the same approach for one of my simms @Jips and I'm trying to get my other one up to the grade

Jips 09-Dec-17 02:14 PM

For my sims, I usually want players to take part in at least one post every month (although I do try and encourage more) so that we can progress things. I always check the crew activity as well to see when people have last logged in. That's my biggest indicator for activity.

If someone hasn't logged in for 2-4 weeks then I'll try to reach out to them to see what's up and ask them if they need an LOA. However, I also try to be a realist with regards to when things are happening.. so like right now things are slow but that's cause everyone is going crazy about the holidays.. so I'm not going to pressure people to do stuff, but I ask them to get to posts when they can.

mynameisrayb 09-Dec-17 02:15 PM

most ships in STF follow a 3/5/7 posting rule. COs, XOs, and GMs must post once every 3 days, DHs and CNS must post every 5 days, and JOs/Civilians must post at least once every 7 days

Jips 09-Dec-17 02:15 PM

It might not be the best method, but I don't want to force people to do stuff and make them unhappy.

2

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:16 PM

for me personally, what I do with my simulations is that I send out a monthly news item on the site at the beginning of each month that outlines what has been happening, and where the mission is up to, and when new players join, or there is fleet news that is relevant to the sim, I will send out a news item. I find that when you view the site and see that there is a news item from only a couple of days ago, it gives visitors a bit of a sense that the sim is active and still going, then its up to them if they want to join.

1

Jips 09-Dec-17 02:17 PM

Oh yes, I do that as well @Leam-Mark.

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:17 PM

what I'd like to do now is move on... the first DON'T I want to discuss is something that might sound harsh, but it's something that can hurt a sim and that is DON'T micromanage your players. Telling your players that they have to write the mission to end a particular way or that its "my way or the highway" can kill a simulation. Be open to changes, be open to letting your crew express their inner creativity. If you run a simulation on your own or with close friends who are all on the same page then that's micromanagement can work, but when you have many ideas from your crew floating around, don't micromanage every little part of their time onboard your simulation. Do you agree or disagree with this one and what are your thoughts? How much management of your players is enough?

Elena 09-Dec-17 02:17 PM

So you have Monthly chronicles. we have them too!

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:18 PM

It's important not to micromanage but you also have to make sure one person isn't making another or even the entire crew upset

Elena 09-Dec-17 02:18 PM

It depends from a story to another and how creative./ involved the others are.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:18 PM

I want people to have fun and write what they want to write, but I've also encountered very... "strong" creative personalities at times

1

Elena 09-Dec-17 02:18 PM

And once something was collectively agreed, one changing his mind individually mid-plot to make it halt... wouldn't be acceptable

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:19 PM

that is a good point @[SB118] Rahman how would you handle someone like that? I know for me, there would obviously be people who would be bringing concerns to me, and I would email those concerns to the player in question and ask that they stop.. if they stopped, then great, but if it kept on going, then they would have to be removed. I know I have removed a few players in my time as a CO for being a hazard to the safe simming environment I try to foster on my sims

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:19 PM

Sometimes I think it is okay to say no, and to do so firmly for the good of the sim, and hopefully you can explain it to the player in question so they understand

1

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 02:19 PM

However you do need to warn a player if a particular action might kill their character

Like trying to run the Berlin Wall

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:20 PM

And I'm not even talking about obvious breaking of rules and creating a toxic environment

I mean that's pretty straightforward. I'm sure most fleets have similar rules as us about what's not allowed

but the hard part is for instance when someone isn't really breaking a direct rule but they're for instance simming things that may go against the overall... feel I guess or tastes of the rest of the crew

1

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 02:21 PM

Our GM's have a guide line of rules they use for just that kind of thing

Jips 09-Dec-17 02:21 PM

I do agree that micromanaging is wrong, however I have found from my experience that alot of players just have no clue what to write or do beyond the overall plot of a mission. One thing I tried to do in a mission that I'm currently running was to have everyone be affected by the same eventwith different outcomes for each person for them to write out (eg: visions of a past incident in their lives that related to them indirectly).

2

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:22 PM

for instance, I once had a player who joined a Trek sim but wanted to sim things that were more along the lines of fantasy

which is all right for a mission of course but a werewolf in Starfleet is kinda hard to explain.

1

2

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 02:24 PM

I'm running a game with a lot of period detail

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 02:24 PM

@[SB118] Rahman extreme hairproblems?

2

Jips 09-Dec-17 02:24 PM

The thing I have trouble with is involving all departments.

1

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 02:24 PM

However, I show my research in the posts and OOC, which has encouraged people to do the same thing.

Elena 09-Dec-17 02:24 PM

So do I,. @Stephen Hunter UK

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 02:25 PM

My captain is a vampire

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:26 PM

One thing I've tried there @Jips is to have two stories going during a mission sometimes if plot A for instance is really security and engineering heavy but leaves nothing for say counseling or medical.

1

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 02:26 PM

@CaptRavenfall Is his bark worse than his bite?

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 02:26 PM

I do wonder what is the fine line between guiding a player and micromanagement one. What is the actually do or don't in the matter. Someone that is new requires mroe guiding then someone that is experience right?

1

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:26 PM

Kind of like how they often had an A and B plot in the actual shows

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 02:26 PM

She has no bite

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 02:26 PM

I have five different plots on my game

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:27 PM

@everyone I'm going to throw out the next DO in the list, and that is DO keep your active players around (and get rid of the dead wood from time to time). I have seen simulations that are active but have players who when I look haven't posted in months, they aren't listed as LOA and they just are there. If I join and I want to write with them, I get nothing. Your active players are the life blood of the sim, you want them to stay around, but you also need to not be worried about standing by those who are active and booting the ones who aren't pulling their weight. What do you think? How long without logging in or posting is too long? and what do you do if one of those players who you booted comes back wanting to rejoin, how do you handle it?

2

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 02:27 PM

She is genetically altered

Jips 09-Dec-17 02:27 PM

There is also something to say about players needing to adjust to a CO's GMing style because not everyone runs their game the same.

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 02:28 PM

Our site has our own gm's

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:28 PM

Frankly if you are awol for 2 weeks, you are booted

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 02:28 PM

Each with a different style

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:28 PM

Yeah, that's a fair point. It should be okay that not every player is going to be a great fit for a sim and it doesn't necessarily mean either party is in the wrong

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:28 PM

No discussion, no debate, no excuses

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:29 PM

Hopefully in a larger fleet there's another ship out there for that player

Darkhorse/Dave 09-Dec-17 02:29 PM

I think it depends on what is going on with the overall sim. I posted everyday at first but lately it's Ive been skipping a few days because of what is going on with the new mission

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 02:29 PM

I don't have hard and fast rules

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 02:29 PM

That's why our site has so may ships it makes sure there is something for everyone to enjoy

Sindri 09-Dec-17 02:29 PM

@Leam-Mark .. what do you consider “inactive “

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:29 PM

I do not care if shit went haywire, you could have spend 30 seconds to send me a message saying you be on LOA cause shit happened. You are partaking into something with more people so they deserve to know.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:30 PM

UFOP StarBase 118 lets COs decide when AWOL kicks in after a minimum of 30 days since last contact with the player

Camila 09-Dec-17 02:30 PM

If someone hasn't logged in for a month and isn't on LOA, I'll send a email. If they don't respond in two weeks, I remove them.

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 02:30 PM

Sometimes stuff goes seriously haywire

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:30 PM

@Sindri for me, on my sims. I consider "inactive" as when someone has not logged in and/or posted for more than 3 weeks (which is 2 weeks under the rules and then an extra week leeway)

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:30 PM

Also why I got an activity requirement and not a posting requirement cause well some large JPs can take 2 weeks to write

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:30 PM

But in general, it's usually about that month's length of time before they're removed

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 02:30 PM

And you might not be thinking about posting

Darkhorse/Dave 09-Dec-17 02:30 PM

I don't want to write a sim on how Ensign Martel is getting ready to ship out on the Thor...I mean do you really want me to write a sim on how I packed my luggage, lol?

Elena 09-Dec-17 02:30 PM

People get slower on my site. Even when listed inactive, the characters are still around in the story as long as it makes sense for the story. Because the writers might come back.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:31 PM

Maybe @Darkhorse/Dave if it's a nice introspective sim that reveals something about the character

Sindri 09-Dec-17 02:31 PM

@Leam-Mark , that’s more than fair. I was thinking more just not reporting in for two weeks

Skoll 09-Dec-17 02:32 PM

Star trek games may be like islands who don't communicate... non trek games communicate and use each others site to advertise. If one admin causes a problem most of us know about it.

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:32 PM

But yeah I tend to be quite strict, though if I am busy the culling can be delayed, but really once I feel some one is not around I take actions, I will PM them and the like, but after that I have no qualms about booting people and so far I never heard a thing from anyone I booted for inactivity.

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:32 PM

personally, what I do is at that 3 week mark, I send an email saying that they have been inactive for three weeks, and if they have a reason for their inactivity, it would be best to let me know so we can work something out, be it a LOA or work them back into the storyline.... if after another week they haven't come back to me via email or haven't logged in and made a post, then I email them again, and let them know they are removed... so overall, 4 weeks without logging in and/or posting results in removal

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 02:32 PM

With starfleet a notice is sent when the player has passed their posting limits and if no response is received we will usually wait until the thirty say mark to remove without warnig

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:32 PM

I don't think having an activity/posting requirement is a bad thing as it can be a lot like how many writers try to have weekly or even daily writing prompts. Writing/simming is like any skill that gets better with practice

Darkhorse/Dave 09-Dec-17 02:32 PM

That is true Rahman. My mentor also hinted you can post TOO much, lol

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:33 PM

haha

yeah it's definitely a balance

You don't want your new crew to be sick of you before you even stepped aboard!

Camila 09-Dec-17 02:33 PM

Most people are on a lot of sims now. If you have a player that goes inactive on yours, google the email to see if it pops up on other sims. Then see if they're active there. If they are, then they abandoned yours. If they aren't, odds are they lost internet or just abandoned all the sims they're on. I've seen both.

Darkhorse/Dave 09-Dec-17 02:33 PM

I've slowed down, hopefully not too much, lol

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 02:33 PM

Posting begats posting but only to a point

Sindri 09-Dec-17 02:33 PM

@Elena , I know I struggle to keep a single character going sometimes because of RL commitments, but I do try “Park” my character if I’m away for a few days

Elena 09-Dec-17 02:34 PM

Here they keep being on duty, just the focus isn't on them anymore

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:34 PM

I just find it disrepectfull when poeple do not inform others if they need an LOA. I mean you also cannot just vannish from your job for 2 weeks and expect to walk back in. That said if anyone would contact me down the line with good plausible reasons and their seats are still open I would consider letting them back onboard depending on their history on the sim.

1

Elena 09-Dec-17 02:34 PM

Because in the latest years, my writers got more commitments in real life and can't write as quickly as before.

1

Sindri 09-Dec-17 02:34 PM

@Carde Indeed

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:35 PM

Totally @Carde ! Especially if you later find them via how @Camila says, on another sim

Elena 09-Dec-17 02:35 PM

The staff ganged on me 2 years ago to change the activity rule because otherwise I would remain with no writers.

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:35 PM

Also this is a reason why I use my upwards to 3 month trial period for new memebers. General those who will not be eactive can be spotted in that time frtame and just removed.

Jips 09-Dec-17 02:35 PM

@Elena tell me about it LOL.

Darkhorse/Dave 09-Dec-17 02:35 PM

I only have one character as I have not done this before. But I got excited when I first joined the Embassy and probably annoyed Toni some....so now I am quieter and will revisit my ideas at a later time. Don't annoy your crew lol

Had so many ideas

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:36 PM

That trial period has been one of my best inventions I feel persoanlly no sample posts, just give people 3 months to proof them selves and to see if player and sim are a match, if it does not work out, no hard feelings.

Elena 09-Dec-17 02:36 PM

@Jips , may I be your Athos?

Jme 09-Dec-17 02:36 PM

Sometimes its a matter of comparison, too. If you start with a game that has a low posting requirement it will take a lot more getting used to if you change to a game with a higher posting requirement and vice versa

1

Jips 09-Dec-17 02:36 PM

@Elena Is he a dog too? (I know he's a musketeer)

1

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:36 PM

You know the requirements when you sign up.

Sindri 09-Dec-17 02:36 PM

Hey Sal.. @Jme

Jme 09-Dec-17 02:36 PM

Hey @Sindri good to see you!

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:37 PM

Again trial period is amazing, find out it is to much you can just leave in good faith

Elena 09-Dec-17 02:37 PM

@Jme Mine had higher posting requirements and they slowed down at the members' requests a few years later, because they couldn;t do it anymore.

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:37 PM

@everyone the discussions are going great, I want to move forward to another DON'T and this one is a really big one, and it is DON'T be a bully. Being a CO/GM is about being a leader, an ambassador, a mediator, a friend, a writer, and countless other hats. We want what is best for our simulations, we want to ensure we have a safe and enjoyable simming environment for our players, but we also want to be seen as someone who our players can come to with questions and for advice, and I have seen a few times when simulations have failed and players have jump ship or players have simply just left the community and never returned simply because the CO/GM has been a bully and has made the environment so toxic that they don't want to be there. What do you think? How far is too far for a CO to take their "authority" as the CO/GM of the simulation? What about players, how do you or should you handle a player that is being a bully

3

1

Jme 09-Dec-17 02:37 PM

That's pretty natural when you have players growing older

1

Darkhorse/Dave 09-Dec-17 02:37 PM

I have to say I've never experienced that

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:37 PM

Our trial period at UFOP SB118 is our academy, really. It's about a week to a week and a half of simming and it usually weeds out people who cant keep up with the pace or style of our fleet. I like it because it minimizes the disruption of a new player that would go AWOL from joining an actual ship in our fleet, although that still happens too of course

Jips 09-Dec-17 02:38 PM

I let my wife who is my XO deal with the bullies. >_< LOL

1

She is better with people than I am.

Sindri 09-Dec-17 02:38 PM

@Rahman .. I liked the academy role entry

Jips 09-Dec-17 02:38 PM

Although I am learning from her.

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:39 PM

I know some people can find me a bully cause I am quite harsh and direct, but I believe at all times I offer help and solutions, but if things are not as they should be you will be told so clearly. In return anyone can be just as direct with me in fact I desire it cause I hate people who do not get to the damn point.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:39 PM

The CO of course needs to have some authority as the GM of the game, but yeah there are definitely some folks who take the rank and titles a little too seriously :whistles:

Sindri 09-Dec-17 02:40 PM

The bully thing is hard to distinguish between Character and personal opinion.. some people use it as an outlet

Jme 09-Dec-17 02:40 PM

I think the key is: The game is about the players

No players - no game

2

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 02:40 PM

CO isn't always GM of course

Jme 09-Dec-17 02:40 PM

So when a CO makes the game all about themselves the game fails

aio 09-Dec-17 02:40 PM

Pip hunters are usually the bully type.

Phoenix Lalor 09-Dec-17 02:40 PM

@[SB118] Rahman how do you handle the players who go "Ive been a Co in.. fleet for # of years and I should bot have to.."

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:40 PM

Make no mistake I make clear in the end I am the one in charge of my sim and I will make a final decision if I have to and deal with it. But it rarely has to come to do that, because I much prefer to talk with people.

aio 09-Dec-17 02:40 PM

They want all the glory and none of the work

Jme 09-Dec-17 02:40 PM

Which is a bit tough for first time GMs/COs because the media we watch often shows the CO as the main character

But TV =/= RPG

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:41 PM

I do not care about my rank, ranks to me are IC items bound to a character not the player.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:41 PM

@Phoenix Lalor I usually tell them I respect their experience (I do) but that as a member now of our fleet, they need to abide by our Fleet's constitution and rules

aio 09-Dec-17 02:41 PM

Exactly

Phoenix Lalor 09-Dec-17 02:41 PM

@[SB118] Rahman and does that work?

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:41 PM

I have had a chief science officer which OOC wise had more power than my XO.

Viper 09-Dec-17 02:41 PM

I find having a character besides my CO character that I also write for is actually pretty liberating in that @Jme.

Jme 09-Dec-17 02:41 PM

@Phoenix Lalor I've played over 20 games in 21 years and I have never seen a long-running game that allowed a CO of another group to come in at a rank advantage

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:41 PM

@Phoenix Lalor does raise a good point and I'm glad someone brought it up.... how do you think you could handle someone who comes to you wanting to join and says "but I've been here for X years" or a CO that says something in a discussion "Well, I've been a CO here for X years and...."

Viper 09-Dec-17 02:41 PM

I prefer an "ensemble" approach to a top-down one.

Jme 09-Dec-17 02:41 PM

I've seen some that crazhed and burned... but that's aqnother story

You move games you should be expected to start from scratch

because each game is different

Phoenix Lalor 09-Dec-17 02:42 PM

@Jme i agree i was asking how people handle it

Darkhorse/Dave 09-Dec-17 02:42 PM

Common coutesy goes a long way. Yhe CO is incharge and keeps order but if everyone is courteous then there usually isn't any ned for anyone to flex their muscle

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:42 PM

O anyone who comes to me with demands because they have been X, Y or Z can royally fuck off in those exact words.

Go play prima dona elsewhere

Darkhorse/Dave 09-Dec-17 02:42 PM

What Carde said lol

Sindri 09-Dec-17 02:42 PM

IRL I manage an engineering department, which is helpful in Sims as the sentiment is similar

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:43 PM

lets try and keep the language to a minimum, please @Carde

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:43 PM

@Phoenix Lalor I suppose it depends honestly on the person. Some people have been able to adapt. And those who can't, well... probably for the best then they leave

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:43 PM

Me is Dutch so happens naturally sorry.

1

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:43 PM

Have to watch my own sanity after all

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 02:43 PM

@Carde stop making me proud as fellow dutchman

1

Darkhorse/Dave 09-Dec-17 02:43 PM

Me was a soldier so it happens quite naturally for me too

1

Phoenix Lalor 09-Dec-17 02:43 PM

What langauge?

Darkhorse/Dave 09-Dec-17 02:44 PM

Bad

Sindri 09-Dec-17 02:44 PM

Military experience does help

Phoenix Lalor 09-Dec-17 02:44 PM

@Sindri how?

Darkhorse/Dave 09-Dec-17 02:44 PM

It really does I have found

Well, Starfleet IS a military organization so knowing what that life is like helps to make the sims more...gritty and real

Sindri 09-Dec-17 02:45 PM

@Phoenix Lalor by being used to seniority or rank being no indication of wortg

Worth

Phoenix Lalor 09-Dec-17 02:45 PM

I have found those with military experience often want a more military game. I used to play on the USS Dominator and it was very military rather than exploration

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:45 PM

O boy some one called starfleet a militairy wait for the world to burn in 3 2 1

1

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:46 PM

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 02:46 PM

Usually when finding a player for my ship and the character has attained a rank higher rank that was achieved while active on another ship then I'll allow it but for most new characters I will start them at the rank designated for the position.

Most people don't have a problem doin it this way

Phoenix Lalor 09-Dec-17 02:46 PM

I was not critiquing i was asking for extrapolation

Sindri 09-Dec-17 02:46 PM

You get used to the fact that some people want to be bosses, but don’t understand the role properly

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:46 PM

I've also seen someone with military experience have troubles though dealing with others before

2

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:46 PM

@everyone since I am aware of the time constraints, I'd like to get onto something that can be a DO and a DON'T.... that being DO be firm on your rules (and don't be afraid to make the hard choices), but on the flip side DON'T abuse the trust of your players and your fleet, if you are in one...... as CO's we have rules to govern the safe running of the simulation, and so things can be calm and in order, but to keep a simulation running smoothly, those rules need to be enforced even when its a close personal friend of yours. Be firm on your rules. What do you think? What sort of rules do you have and are they working documents or are they set in stone, never to be modified and how would you handle making a difficult decision

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:46 PM

Because of course you can't just say "because I told you so!" to work with us pesky civilians

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 02:47 PM

I am a rail enthusiast so that's helped with my 1960s spy game which involves historical trains

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:47 PM

As I said before I have kicked good friends from my sims because they could not adhere to the rules. Beside simming I have banned a fellow forum Admin for not following the rules.

Sindri 09-Dec-17 02:48 PM

@[SB118] Rahman yet so many companies management still try?

2

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 02:48 PM

The rules are the same, and should be carried out the same for everyone

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:48 PM

If you do not stand firm on your rules you might as well not have any. However if people as a whole tell you they are to strict you might need to consider changing them so they are achieveable and hence enforceable.

1

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:48 PM

so @Carde you would say that a simulation's rules are a working document???

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:49 PM

In a way, but you got to be carefull with them as most rules really should not have any flex in them like for example discrimination.

Rules that can be changed would be activity requirements for example or allowing certain species.

1

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 02:50 PM

I agree

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:50 PM

so, what do others think? should a simulation's rules be flexible in some areas and not others? What sort of rules do you have that are basically non-negotiable?

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:50 PM

Also the most important rule I have in my rules: *Being Stupid is not an excuse to break any rules, if you are unsure about anything you contact the CO/GM before you take action.

Phoenix Lalor 09-Dec-17 02:50 PM

Sorry but my "no overtly sexual posts"rule is hatd

aio 09-Dec-17 02:50 PM

I see rules as more guidelines, overall. There are some rules I wont bend, graphic content etc, but mostly I see them as what I would expect

1

Intumesce 09-Dec-17 02:51 PM

But if it is hated by the entire crew but you, should you still keep the rule/

1

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:51 PM

@aio that is a good point... do we (CO's) over-use the word "rules"

Jme 09-Dec-17 02:51 PM

It depends. Some rules are strict but you need them to stop the floodgates

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:51 PM

If my whole crew tells me they want to discrimnate I will kick my whole crew.

aio 09-Dec-17 02:51 PM

I think the word 'rules' is restricting

I dont like negative sounding words

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 02:51 PM

You allways have to be careful with changing rules as well, sometimes it can cause bad feeling in people who have denied themselves doing something for a long time and then it suddenly gets changed, particularly if it's a retro active authorisation of a recent breach. Also, mens rea may not be important in a breach taking place but it should be important in punishment.

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:52 PM

If they say please can we lower the acitvity requirements they are to much we can talk about it

1

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:52 PM

It's not often I think that the whole crew is against a rule

aio 09-Dec-17 02:52 PM

and rules has negative connotations.

Hence guidelines.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:52 PM

what more often I've seen is a group of two or three might be a certain way

Camila 09-Dec-17 02:52 PM

http://rpgrating.com/create/ This is a good place to get an idea for the content rating that you're looking for on your sim without shoving it down people's throats

sarahc

Create

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 02:52 PM

That's why our site is of 13 it can be hinted to the action but not explicits

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:52 PM

@Edgeford makes a good point as well, when changing "rules/guidelines" do we make them retroactive, or does it apply from the moment the change is approved?

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:52 PM

and so then you have an issue with one group vs the other within your own crew

1

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:52 PM

@aio I disagree rules are rules for a reason like guidelines are guidelines for a reason 2 different thing

Jme 09-Dec-17 02:53 PM

Rules have consequences when you break them. Guidelines don't

1

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 02:53 PM

Guidelines are also missiles

Camila 09-Dec-17 02:53 PM

@aio, I thought you liked my rules and that you wanted to use them as an example before

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:53 PM

If you don't follow your own rules, you erode trust with your crew and members at large within a fleet

aio 09-Dec-17 02:53 PM

I did say some cant be broken.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:53 PM

especially if you don't follow your own rules when it concerns the higher ups

aio 09-Dec-17 02:53 PM

But its usually common sence which ones you dont break.

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:53 PM

Changing rules would only happen with approval of most of the crew and seeing I do not have 200 rules (I want people to use common sense mostly) few things will get changed that should have hurted poeple int he past.

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:53 PM

@everyone I am aware of the time, so I want to open the floor up to everyone to discuss just in general, what are some of the things you would say are DO's and DON'Ts of game management that you would say would be worth letting others here know about. We will be taking the discussion to the #ffvii-overflow room in about 6 minutes, where I will put one big thing that I sadly had to cut from the main panel discussion

Camila 09-Dec-17 02:54 PM

Common sense is a superpower

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 02:54 PM

In my stance a rule should never be retroactivly changed unless there is some bizare an unforseen technical trip. Which in a bare bones, simple rule system there is not. But if someone does X against the rules, then makes a convincing argument why it should be legal still punish the breach, but make it legal going forward. Retroactive authorisation tends to make everyone bitter (edited)

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:54 PM

A fleet that has a history of following its rules at least gives the lowest/newest member assurances that they will be treated fairly

Jme 09-Dec-17 02:54 PM

I'm fine with rules as long as: 1. They are clearly communicated and not a surprise to players 2. they have a clear reasoing behind them 3. They apply to everyone and 4. you have a system of revising the rules if need be.

2

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 02:55 PM

You should probaly also make sure the rules are fair, and not prone to abuse. In my experience, that can lead to bad decisions, all around.

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 02:55 PM

Partly that, but also proportional enforcement. Punish yes, but not too hard

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 02:56 PM

I always add at least one funny rule

1

Skoll 09-Dec-17 02:57 PM

Don't steal from others and pass their ideas of as your own... someone did that to me recently and has since been black listed by most sites and admin because of it. Be afraid of back lash if you do something irrevocably stupid. If you are borrowing from someone else's idea credit them

Intumesce 09-Dec-17 02:57 PM

I had to come up with some rules recently, my favourite phrasing in one was: " 7) Just, you know, don't meta-game. Your character knows what it knows, it is not clairvoyant."

1

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 02:57 PM

its not that hard to credit whomever you got a rule from in your rules.

Phoenix Lalor 09-Dec-17 02:57 PM

@Sepandiyar ohh hiya

Edgeford 09-Dec-17 02:57 PM

there is an important difference between stupid and mallicious

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 02:57 PM

waves

Carde 09-Dec-17 02:58 PM

If you steal some one esle their work you can F off for sure. Hell I found people stealing my characters and to say I was pissed would be a royal understatement

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 02:58 PM

oh we're talking characters? or we're talking a set of rules

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:58 PM

DONT: let rules and procedure though become so complex that it steals the fun out of your game in the first place!

4

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 02:58 PM

characters is straight theft.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 02:59 PM

You're not actually creating a real, working Starfleet. There doesn't need to be a form for every single thing that needs to be done in triplicate...

Intumesce 09-Dec-17 02:59 PM

Character stealing is just stupid, but even things like stealing rules is just odd. 99% of the people I've met I just asked "Mind if I base my X on your X" and they generally reply with "Yeah, just dont cop/paste"

aio 09-Dec-17 02:59 PM

The number 1 rule should be Have fun.

2

Skoll 09-Dec-17 02:59 PM

No the guy in question was stupid then malicious in that order and back to stupid again... when he accused us of stealing his idea knowing that we could back up our claim to his plot with posts dating back over a year. Don't be stupid is a good phrase. Don't make a mistake in a community you may not recover from

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 02:59 PM

If you need help creating one let's talk I'm always ready to help

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 02:59 PM

@everyone we are in the last minutes of this panel, so I want to thank you all for being great participants, for engaging so well and keeping things on topic and moving well. I appreciate and thank you all for the insights and I hope you have all gotten something out of this to take back to your own simulations to help make them even more awesome, I know I have. Thank You again and we will be taking this discussion to #ffvii-overflow where I have one extra thing to discuss. The next panel should be starting soon, and that is Metagaming

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 02:59 PM

Well that presumes common sense being common after all lol

Carde 09-Dec-17 03:00 PM

twas interesthing again, now I gotta run before the shop closes

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:00 PM

INteresting discussion!

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:00 PM

::starts setting the stage for the amazing @Jme ::

::Gets rabbit and hat ready::

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:00 PM

Someone stole an entire plot line we had planned as a site event and turned it into a site story for their own site but did not get permission to use it then tried to pass it off as their own and tried to say we were stealing from them so yeah sorry guys but theft of a character is one thing story lines however are just as unforgivable.

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:00 PM

Jess 09-Dec-17 03:00 PM

WOOT Jamie!

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:01 PM

Allright, hello everyone! My Name is Jamie, and I play Captain Sal Taybrim, Commanding Officer of StarBase 118 over at StarBase 118 (Clever, I know) and this next discussion is on Metagaming!

RAdml Toni Turner 09-Dec-17 03:01 PM

Hi Jamie

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:02 PM

And because I like to meet new people, I'd like to start this discussion by having you guys introduce yourselfes - what game/ship do you play on, who is your character and what is your role?

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:02 PM

Metagaming? Want to expand on that please

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:02 PM

Then we'll touch base on what metagaming is (edited)

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:02 PM

I never metagamer I liked

2

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:02 PM

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:02 PM

Silent Hunter, various sims, various characters and roles

Currently running a 1960s spy game at Myth-Weavers

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:03 PM

My name is Rich, I write for Captain Roshanara Rahman of the USS Veritas at UFOP: StarBase 118

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:03 PM

So @everyone our agenda is: 1: Introductions 2: What is Metagaming 3: Devil's Advocate time, how is metagaming good? and then 4: The dark side of Metagaming.

(edited)

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 03:03 PM

I'm interested in knowing what metagaming actually is?

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:03 PM

I'm excited for item 4!

Sounds spooky

Jess 09-Dec-17 03:04 PM

Hiya everyone! I'm Jess, playing Jalana Rajel, CO of the USS Constitution-B over at UFOP: Starbase 118

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:04 PM

Skoll, also known as Rilen, Also known as that a**hole, also known as oh no not him again, also known as Shadow. I am a Teen wolf site runner for four years, a dc comics site runner for two years and looking to expand into Shadow hunters mythos in the future. I play Scott McCall and Super boy as my main characters at the moment.

Brell 09-Dec-17 03:04 PM

Hello Everyone, my name is lee. I am a member of UFOP: StarBase 118 PBEM. My Character is Commander Brell a Bolian who Commanding officer of the USS Atlantis. (edited)

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:05 PM

Primary story runner at TBIL and creator of the what if site event

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:05 PM

I play Lt. Mikazisaki on SPC Simms/NX Eagle. I'm a very boring Chief Ops officer.

RAdml Toni Turner 09-Dec-17 03:05 PM

I play R.Admiral Toni Turner on Starbase 118 Embassy on Duronis II

Jess 09-Dec-17 03:05 PM

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:05 PM

lol

Darkhorse/Dave 09-Dec-17 03:05 PM

Hey Toni, I'm the guy behind Martel

Narica 09-Dec-17 03:05 PM

I play Aitas who is an intel officer and one of Jamie's minions

[RPGW] beeman 09-Dec-17 03:05 PM

#meta

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:06 PM

Sorry, I'm an unabshed online extrovert

1

NevadaTrekkie 09-Dec-17 03:06 PM

Ok metagaming.. peaked my interest

RAdml Toni Turner 09-Dec-17 03:06 PM

hehe Martel

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 03:06 PM

waves MGEN MacTaryn of OF's Camp Falkirk, and JFC

Darkhorse/Dave 09-Dec-17 03:07 PM

Yeah, THAT guy

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:07 PM

Anyone here besides me not involved in fleet operations I am feeling lonely here guys.

NevadaTrekkie 09-Dec-17 03:07 PM

(Waves) @Sepandiyar's minion here

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:07 PM

OK! @everyone Metagaming - the basic definition is when a player in a game uses out of character knowledge to affect the game.

4

1

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 03:07 PM

I’m just a lowly CMO

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 03:08 PM

Come sit wth me, minion.

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:08 PM

@Jme Indeed

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:08 PM

Like most terms we use in simming this comes from Tabletop roleplay so it also has overtones of using the game rules to affect the game storyline

NevadaTrekkie 09-Dec-17 03:08 PM

YES Sir

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:08 PM

Ah we call it god modding

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:08 PM

But what is out of character knowledge

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 03:08 PM

very quickly... I'm Captain Richardson (USS Excalibur)/Captain Wentworth (USS Cavalry) here in Bravo Fleet. Former OF member, now soley in BF

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:08 PM

I'm unsure why that definition earned an eggplant...

2

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 03:08 PM

Eggplants, for the comment that has everything.

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:08 PM

@Stephen Hunter UK that's a good question - in a simm we can use a variety of definitions (edited)

Most of our simms don't use pen and paper rules

Though some could

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:09 PM

We punish the player by denying them cookies and a nice little flogging publicly and privately

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:09 PM

Some might like that

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:09 PM

And besides the cookies I am serious

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:09 PM

I dunno. Metagaming to me has always been the use of knowledge you know that your character doesn't. The abuse of rules is .. not a bad thing? They'er there for a reason. >_>

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 03:09 PM

or moderation so that their posts don't hit without review

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:09 PM

OOC knowledge is anything you the player knows, which includes of course IC knowledge that your character knows

Darkhorse/Dave 09-Dec-17 03:09 PM

Privately....that sounds...violatey

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:09 PM

(yes, I come from 3rd edition D&D)

1

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:10 PM

In the most traditional sense Metagaming is when a player goes "Oh, that adversary only fired three magic missles at me, he must be level 5, I think we can take him"

The players has information about the ruleset that the character could never have

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:10 PM

You know what your character is thinking along with everyone else's but your character doesn't know what they're thinking (unless they're a telepath) for instance

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 03:10 PM

I've only run into metagaming where the other player plays into any instropsection writing you did in the JP for that character, as if they said it aloud. Like they're reading their mind (edited)

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:10 PM

@Jme Which would be fine in Order of the Stick

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:10 PM

But in a more story based sense it's the player knows something the character could not

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:10 PM

That's.. I dunno, I wouldn't think that's metagaming

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:10 PM

Indeed

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:11 PM

(the magic missle example)

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:11 PM

However you could rationalise that into IC knowledge

A fighter pilot will know what his likely adversaries can carry on their planes

That's a Smith and Wesson and you've already had your six

So to speak

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:12 PM

Characters don't think about thier game world in terms of levels and rules; but players often do - and yes, you can rationalize out of character knowledge into in character knowledge

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:12 PM

yeah, to be fair, a good roleplayer can work that into an IC rationalization

Narica 09-Dec-17 03:12 PM

I've seen some definitions of metagaming that also include an emphasis on trying to get one over on other players which I think is relevant.

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:12 PM

We would consider the use of outside information a cardinal sin as well as moving or using anothers player character to suit our needs without permission...

RAdml Toni Turner 09-Dec-17 03:12 PM

But he shouldn't know another player's thoughts..

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 03:12 PM

I'm thikning more like, a secret someone knows in their head, and that the writer hasn't 'said' aloud other than the characters thought processes. and magically the other character knowsit

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:12 PM

I have to give 'outside information' to my players that their character would have

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:12 PM

"magically". To be kind fair..

If say, you're playing Deanna Troi?

you can read microexpressions and general character

aio 09-Dec-17 03:13 PM

Someone who writes, using information that another character has written about privatly, or in thought? Am in the right area?

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:13 PM

For example, they're not going to know about East German transit visas

1

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 03:13 PM

Yes

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:13 PM

I tend to define metagaming very much a "Can this character know it?"

but yeah, you're right

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 03:13 PM

That's a good way @Kylindra

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:13 PM

If you're playing, say, Barclay?

You shouldn't be able to derive the secret from expressions

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:13 PM

Here's another example. Doctor Macoy tells Lieutenant Dox that she's pregnant. Dox wants to be the first to tell her husband, but a player reads Macoy's post and spills the beans early congratulating Lieutenant Wharf on his kid before Dox can tell him...

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:13 PM

(Unless you bought points in Gather Information, or something.)

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:14 PM

In most simms we can read what's going on in multiple scenes

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:14 PM

@Jamie then the player could have made an educated guess

IC

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:14 PM

Like, let's say that player is a nurse in sickbay going off shift?

They might know.

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:14 PM

Sure, they could have. It's a 50/50 chance that the character is clever or that Dox feels cheated and gets upset OOC

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:14 PM

But yeah, agreed, there needs to be an IC justification or it's clear metagaming.

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:15 PM

Or the lady suddenly voms for no reason

2

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:15 PM

Well I would expect there to be major consequences for a nurse doing something like that.

Narica 09-Dec-17 03:15 PM

medical confidentiality is a thing

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:15 PM

Doctor-patient confidentiality

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:15 PM

Maybe?

Phoenix Lalor 09-Dec-17 03:15 PM

Using IC information where your character was NoT present is my big NoNo

Brell 09-Dec-17 03:15 PM

Private information and all yeah.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:15 PM

I dunno, that's sure something I'd consider a potential IC consequence

but not an OOC one.

aio 09-Dec-17 03:16 PM

Agreed. Metagamine is very... Mary Sue.

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:16 PM

It can be. It can make characters more omnipotent than they should be

But, as we come into the 20 minute mark I want to focus this discussion on the potential positives of Metagaming

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:17 PM

Really... now I want to hear this

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:17 PM

Well

the obvious one is from a CO's standpoint

or any senior staff member of a sim

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:18 PM

@everyone - Discussion point: What instances could out of character knowledge be used to improve a game? I know that we tend to see the word metagaming with negative connotations, but we frequently make decisions based on OOC knowledge in order to move games forward (edited)

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:18 PM

you know Ensign Ricky hasn't been simming much and needs tags so you go out of your way to have your character appear somewhere they are and tag them

3

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:18 PM

@Jme A player doing research into the setting and making a suggestion the GM hadn't thought of

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:18 PM

Well, let me give an example of something I've been thinking about

1

Let's say you're playing a spy/James Bond type. And you read that Ensign Sue has just turned off the transporters

Jess 09-Dec-17 03:19 PM

We just had a scene like that... one player writes that there are malfunctions on the ship, one got stuck in a turbolift, the other said their replicator didn't work properly. So if a player read that but was not there to witness or hear it... but they want to join in on the malfunctions, now they know they exist and can write their own happening

1

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:19 PM

Yeah @Stephen Hunter UK , players giving feedback as to what they want to get out of a game and see in a game is a great way to take OOC into IC

Narica 09-Dec-17 03:19 PM

I think this is why I see a lot of definitions of metagaming that are more focused on getting an advantage over others than on involving people or considering ways your characters could interact.

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:19 PM

Metagamming in any circumstance is tricky and should be handled with care... its up to a player to get their character or characters active... you make the choice on how involved you get.

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:19 PM

And I do a lot of research for my games

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:20 PM

So you can pick that moment to take on your plot ofkilling that annoying Bajoran Tailor and hten beaming off. Granted, this isn't metagaming as much as it is screwing the plot up but..

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:20 PM

Like I managed to find a 1963 East German train timetable on the CIA website

Brell 09-Dec-17 03:20 PM

You have a team on the Bridge and a team in Engineering something happens on the bridge and would be important for eng to know. Sensor readings can be read from most anywhere so that ion storm they saw on the bridge but no one called down to tell them about can still be reacted to by the eng team.

2

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:20 PM

@Brell You can act in a way to add drama if you know what is happening elsewhere

1

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:21 PM

(that said, a more banal and useful version is to have you as a player react to a sudden firing noise on a away team to that abanonded and dark station.)

[RPGW] beeman 09-Dec-17 03:21 PM

I think a good use of meta is using that knowledge to work together... like the storyline involved something in engineering, yet as a science player, you can see you may also be involved and be able to lend a hand

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:21 PM

If you know that the team will need transporting, you could have the transporters break down

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:21 PM

@Brell - Good example! And as quite a few of you have said, if the player can come up with a realistic reason to find that information out IC it loses the negative connotation

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:21 PM

When a GM does it it is fine but players should not be able to work from meta knowledge

Jess 09-Dec-17 03:22 PM

In Brell's or my example it is perfectly fine if a player does it, imho

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:22 PM

Does everyone agree that meta should be a GM-only thing?

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:22 PM

@Ametheliana Not directly, but indirectly

Like making sure their player arrives at a dramatic moment

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:23 PM

No.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:23 PM

nope

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:23 PM

Players should be able to use meta knowledge as well, with the consequence laid out that if they use it badly, it might result in either ooc warnings or (badly enough!) IC warnings

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:23 PM

Yes the GM should be the only one doing that

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:23 PM

Or allow a player to do that

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:24 PM

I like it when other players can connect their scenes or plot points to others, again finding a way that makes sense

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:24 PM

I'd agree that if a player is conscientious in using out of game knowledge that they could use it in a way that helps the story forward. Say team one and team two are doing different tasks; and two characters on team one take a short LoA. Players on team two might decide to meet up to give the remaining players on team one a better RP experience with more characters available ti interact with

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:24 PM

A player shouldn't be moving the plot through meta knowledge at all imo

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:24 PM

perhaps as someone else said, it really is just a matter of if they're using metagaming as an unfair advantage to others

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:24 PM

It could depend on how restrictive your game is (edited)

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:24 PM

Yeees

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:24 PM

What is an unfair advantage?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 03:24 PM

If you know a player doesn't want their character to be raped, don't set up their character to be in a rape scene.

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:24 PM

Some games encourage players to step up and take a leadership role

3

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 03:24 PM

That's an example of good metagaming.

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:25 PM

There is no winner in our sims

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:25 PM

and some games the players move around the enviroment asking the GM for descriptions every room

Both are valid games, but they

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:25 PM

An unfair advantage doesn't necessarily mean winners and losers

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:25 PM

'll prompt a much different sense of player leadership

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:25 PM

Wes with the tru facts

1

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:25 PM

but for instance when two players are simming and lets say they're having a disagreement or whatever

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:26 PM

@Rahman Agree, a player should not be allowed to use OOC know to be a Mary Sue unless that is their name

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:26 PM

I've seen where the other player uses the first player's internal thoughts or narration against them later

even if the other character never explicitly said them

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:26 PM

@Rahman That can be used for drama if done correctly

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:26 PM

which obviously can then make the other player upset

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:26 PM

But only with permission

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:26 PM

But if the character isn't a telepath and wouldn't know?

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:27 PM

Writers are always telepaths

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:27 PM

I think players buy into the idea that a game will treat every player fairly. If one or a few characters get advantages or favoritism that makes the other players upset

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:27 PM

to be fair, you don't neeed a telepath

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:27 PM

most people read that as the other person just writing whatever they want then and not respecting the limitations of their character's abilities (in this case not being able to read minds)

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:27 PM

Like, if you have a character who is explclity good at reading microexpressions?

Then yes, they may be able to derive a measure of your thoughts against you

but yes, I agree, (I play devil's advocate a lot, it's a habit, I apologize)

ABSENT a reason to know it, that is not a good use of metagaming

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:28 PM

I get told to give my players hero moments every mission lol I get that

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 03:28 PM

As a rule of thumb I think it's better to be stingy with your character's thoughts because there's not a lot of purpose to showing what's going through your character's head because A. It's better to show what's going on through your character's actions and good descriptions of their face, etc. And more importantly B. Other players can't react to it, and you're setting them up for failure by giving them stuff they can't react to. (edited)

1

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:28 PM

it's a good reason to tell the player 'hey, stop, please.'

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:28 PM

On TV, how many shows will kill a character just as about they are to retire?

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:29 PM

TV metagaming

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:29 PM

@Jme Basic rules of drama

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:29 PM

that's just the writers being kinda lazy

1

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:29 PM

Romeo and Juliet did

Did it

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:29 PM

"I've got three days to retirment?"

"Yeah, you're dead."

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:29 PM

@Kylindra Yep

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:29 PM

I understand the difficulty in thoughts. Some games let characters just express dialogue, some encouraging more in-depth writing where characters thought's feelings and actions are to be explored.

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:30 PM

You know it's coming and that can make it more dramatic

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:30 PM

That means you need to trust the people you're playing with

TSCN 09-Dec-17 03:30 PM

Yall type so fast lol

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:30 PM

and you need to have a GM/CO that will enforce good behavior between players to create a safe space

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:30 PM

@Kylindra Or as soon as they show the baby/girlfriend pictures before they head out on a dangerous mission

TSCN 09-Dec-17 03:30 PM

@Jme i agree 100%

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:30 PM

At that poing I give them a TOS Redshirt.

TSCN 09-Dec-17 03:30 PM

Lol

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:31 PM

I think that between trusting players you can have instances of metagaming that help move the plot forward because the intention isn't to play ;screw your neighbor' but it's to get a story moving forward

TSCN 09-Dec-17 03:31 PM

Someone help me out, is there a difference between metagaming and godmodding?

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:31 PM

yes

godmodding is only viable in freeform simming

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:32 PM

Metagaming = using out of character information to affect the in character narrative

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:32 PM

metagaming is viable in any sim type

TSCN 09-Dec-17 03:32 PM

Ah

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:32 PM

Metagaming is a tool

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:32 PM

Unless a GM is doing so imo

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:32 PM

Godmodding, from what I understand is taking control of another person's PC

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:32 PM

(*note, attention hogging is still viable, but that's a "please don't be a jerk")

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:32 PM

it's like a phaser. It can be used for good or bad.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:32 PM

nah, GM's taking over a character is godmodding

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:32 PM

God nosing can also be taking over enemy actions

Lol

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:33 PM

(Assuming it's without consent)

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:33 PM

Typo

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:33 PM

(which don't look at me to lead a discussion on that, I started and played a simm for 15 years where you wrote for everyone's PC)

1

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:33 PM

and then there's power simming which can be used with meta gaming

Narica 09-Dec-17 03:33 PM

I would say that controlling people's reactions could still happen in sims, but it's a bit less common. E.g., assuming someone didn't step in and stop your character from something.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:33 PM

I tend to think that players should be trusted to control mook actions

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:33 PM

Power simming??

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:33 PM

Ah, Rich is headed to the dark side...

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:33 PM

which is simming in a way that restricts the actions of others to contribute

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:34 PM

I will tell players when to do the enemy actions

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:34 PM

But they have cookies, @Jme !

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:34 PM

What fun is that?

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:34 PM

They do!

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 03:34 PM

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fc/6a/4b/fc6a4b5fee9a8f482b9f57bad5c6baa9--star-trek--darkness.jpg

1

Narica 09-Dec-17 03:34 PM

I have some cookies...I want them now.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:34 PM

So, backing up to powersimming, which is the dark side of metagaming.

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:34 PM

Huh

Brell 09-Dec-17 03:34 PM

Did someone say cookies? Oh back to the talk ... okay.

TSCN 09-Dec-17 03:34 PM

nods

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:34 PM

It leads to the fun sim type of.. dramatic voiceMarathon simmingthunder, lightning, falling cookies

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:35 PM

I will look out for powersimming

TSCN 09-Dec-17 03:35 PM

I made cookies, but that's in the general chat

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:35 PM

It's easy to spot

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:35 PM

Example?

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:35 PM

Are you writing somene into a corner? Can they only get out by.. doign what you wnat?

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:35 PM

It's not necessarily the only dark side of meta gaming I'd say, and doesn't even necessarily need to involve meta gaming but yeah, together it's usually a bad combination

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:35 PM

As a GM or player?

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:35 PM

Did you dicate their actions to the point where short of invalidating your sim they MUST do what you want?

Player, generally.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:35 PM

Yes

that exactly

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:35 PM

K

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:35 PM

(My answer: invalidate your sim.)

But that causes friction.

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:36 PM

Yes, what @[SB118] Rahman said

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:36 PM

I have seen something close to it

Cool new term

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:36 PM

Players want to feel that thier in character decisions matter.

4

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 03:36 PM

They do

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:36 PM

So, uhm..

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:36 PM

when you powersim or metagame in a negative way then they start to feel helpless - and probably quit playing

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:36 PM

I have a story to tell, back before anyone in this room ever knew me.

I was part of a Star Trek Sim.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:36 PM

:leans in:

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:37 PM

I can feel helpless every day while stuck in traffic, but I go to roleplay to tell cool stories

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:37 PM

And our actions were dictated to us weeks in advance

ALl of them.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 03:37 PM

wat

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:37 PM

Like I knew on Week 1 how the story would end on Week 29.

Jess 09-Dec-17 03:37 PM

uuuh

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:37 PM

yikes.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:37 PM

Was it something you all collectively decided?

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:37 PM

Ahhaha.. no.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:37 PM

I know there are some "collaborative writing" groups that sketch out scenes first in advance before writing them together

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:37 PM

The thing is this, we'd know our parts, and on say, Week 18, the assistant GM would go

"You know, I like Super Robot Wars."

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 03:38 PM

If your character's actions are dictated fully in advance, it sounds like you were being used as a ghostwriter-intern for someone's fanfic instead of as a roleplayer.

3

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:38 PM

^ that

Narica 09-Dec-17 03:38 PM

gotta agree with Wes there.

Jess 09-Dec-17 03:38 PM

^^^

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:38 PM

so he'd suddendly write "And now my GMPC insert pulls out a Valkyrie with super photon torpedos and deflector lances, and kills the Borg cube."

(I am not kidding)

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 03:38 PM

Wow.

Jess 09-Dec-17 03:38 PM

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:38 PM

... "oh and invalidates the last ninty lines, so your actions suddenly don't matter.. not that they did."

... and since then I've never ever liked IRC Rps.

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:39 PM

@everyone - Alright, since we're already headed in this direction, let's go to the dark side and start talking about the horrible ways metagaming (using out of character knowledge in character) and powersimming (playing to get an unfair advantage over other characters) can ruin and game - and how can we stop it? Also, fun scary stores are encouraged

I don't blame you

Brell 09-Dec-17 03:39 PM

How many went Rage quit?

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:39 PM

that's a terrible game right there

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:39 PM

@[SARP] Wes so true! I always tell people that while simming involves writing like fan fiction, it is NOT fan fiction because you have to work with others. The story and honestly even how your character develops isn't really just up to you

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:39 PM

No one because apparently I'm the only one who feels that you should have acutal input.

To be fair, I was 15?

And my character was a blatant mary sue.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:39 PM

because other people you're playing with influences how you're shaping the character and story

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:39 PM

But this is why you don't allow powersimming to go unchecked. Eventually, you'll disaffect people.

and if you're really unlucky your group will just get tired of the wish fufillment that you're actually writing and .. leave.

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:40 PM

@[SB118] Rahman yes! in fanfiction you can make the entire story about your character (or your fave character). Roleplaying, however is collabortive and gets better the more people cooperate

5

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:40 PM

which is what acutallly happened.

yeah, if you want to write fanfiction, write a JP with someone who wants to write it with you. You'

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:40 PM

@Jme I compare it to improvisational theater really

A lot of "yes, and..." going on

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:40 PM

It's a good comparison

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:40 PM

You'll actually usually get a good story out of it because most JP writers challenge you.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 03:40 PM

Actually, I wonder if the low barrier to entry is part of what is hurting the roleplaying community - basically the idea is that there's too many boards competing vs the amount of players there actually are and too many of those boards aren't that well run, simply because anyone can do it and there's no quality control except for players voting by moving to better sites. But some players may try RP once, get a GM who's a real stinker, and never come back to the hobby again.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:41 PM

oh definitely

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:41 PM

(For disclosure, I used to be part of 118, so I will use their terminology whenever possible. Sorry if Im being a little confusing)

Yeah, that

Yeah, I can believe that

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:41 PM

I mean you see that in the fleets

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 03:41 PM

I guess my proposed solution is just to educate players that there's tons of RPs out there, and what to look for in a good one vs. warning signs.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:41 PM

A fleet might have 7 ships or 100 but one bad experience on their first ship and most people would just leave

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:41 PM

I think @[SARP] Wes - yeah, that' a legitimate problem. I would not be surprised if almost every one here had at least one horror story

2

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:41 PM

why bother trying another one

and for some, why bother trying another fleet entirely

Narica 09-Dec-17 03:42 PM

yeah. And for sites to make clear what they are looking for in their players and not to try to cater to everyone.

if I can't figure out what a group is going for and writing about easily why would I go through a big process of joining when there are other sites that make it obvious what they're going for.

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:42 PM

One of the games I started with in 1998 or so had a ship where the chief of intel was married to the CO and the CO let her get away with murder. Section 31? Check. Spying on the crew? Check. Telepathically interrogating crew she didn't like? Check.

But there were enough other good games out there to make me stick with it

Brell 09-Dec-17 03:43 PM

eesh

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 03:43 PM

I saw one game where the guy running into it said that all off the characters made for it had to be intelligent females and that all of them had to be turned into dumb horses by the end of the RP.

I mean literal horses.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:43 PM

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 03:43 PM

Also it was very sexual in nature.

1

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:43 PM

So you ran across one of the TF fetishes, I see.

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:43 PM

@[SARP] Wes Did you say neigh?

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:43 PM

Yes, it's.. a fiarly common fetish. :v

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:43 PM

@[SARP] Wes Of course it was...

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:43 PM

.. "common"

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 03:43 PM

It was on Yahoo groups of all places.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:43 PM

(use that word advisely, self)

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:44 PM

But I'll also say that because quite a few of us have these bad experiences - and we stuck with it, we can make better games.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:44 PM

But yeah, at least that up front tells you what they're into.

Narica 09-Dec-17 03:44 PM

yeah

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:44 PM

can we think of other dark sides of meta gaming

besides power simming

Narica 09-Dec-17 03:44 PM

the worst players I've ever seen are those who didn't realize that there were other sites elsewhere that would be totally cool with what they wanted and tried to stick with ones that weren't.

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:44 PM

A lot of people who come to FallFest are staff or COs or GMs and because of these bad experiences we vow to learn more and make better games that don't fall into those problems

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:45 PM

Power simming catches most of my use cases: 1) removing a potential plot 2) ending the dillema too early, causing another wild careening plot and..hm

I think the worst use of metagaming is defining another character's traits

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:46 PM

can you expand on that @Kylindra

Jess 09-Dec-17 03:46 PM

yeah what @Jme said. I took all the bad experiences that I made in my many years of RP and try to not make them with my own crew or myself as player. You never stop learning

4

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:46 PM

I think what we're finding is that metagaming truly turns dark when its combined with powersimming (edited)

1

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:46 PM

So, here's the thing

Player A does action A hiddenly, action B visibly, and thinks thought C

Player B reads that, and writes his description that uses C to twist B and mentions "they did A for <x reason>" that wasn't what the player intended

now, if Player C runs with B's intention, they've just defined player A's trait int a way that wasn't intended

now, sure, A can sim differently, but if B-C dont' change..

well.. you have a competing defintiion of the trait.

especially if others refrence it in narration instead of dialogue

Granted, this isn't something I see happen often, and it's a clear sign your group is pretty disfunctional.

Brell 09-Dec-17 03:48 PM

Textbook right there.

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:48 PM

I can think of ways that it can spoil a plotline. Going from what @Kylindra is describing, say you have a murder mystery and the person playing the murderer describes thier covert moves that happen well away from any of the characters

You could have a gung ho player who immediately moves to arrest and accuse the murderer, before the evidence is in

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:49 PM

Ah

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:49 PM

True, but I'd twist that around on the person

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:49 PM

I've seen that before in sim!

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:49 PM

"What's your evidence?"

"YOU'RE OFF THE FORCE, YOU LOOSE CANNON!"

coughs

But yes, that can rapidly ruin a plot

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:50 PM

(but on the other hand, knowing the answer out of game will help the players focus on a goal, if they all buy into the idea that they need evidence and reasoning first)

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:50 PM

Didn't you run one of those?

aio 09-Dec-17 03:50 PM

10 minutes gang.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:50 PM

I seem to recall a murder mystery on a ship a while ago that worked well.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:50 PM

it depends really from mission to mission I find. It's fun to surprise people

and I know on some ships

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:50 PM

I leave for ten minutes and we are talkin star wars this devolved quickly

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:51 PM

they even hide the identify of the people playing the guest characters

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:51 PM

I have run a few, but I also happen to have a crew that's really mature about IC and OOC knowledge. It's a 'know your players' sort of thing

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:51 PM

giving them access to a guest email account

Carde 09-Dec-17 03:51 PM

Murder is fine, I killed more than a few characters

Jess 09-Dec-17 03:51 PM

We have run a few missions in which the culprit was a surprise like in Murder she wrote, and others in which we knew who it was from the start and had to backwards-investigate like on Columbo. Both can be fun

Narica 09-Dec-17 03:51 PM

I did play a murderer recently, but that also had a strong side of "let's be really silly and have the captain fight off a giant wolf" so well.

1

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:51 PM

sometimes that can help immersion too so you won't think of "oh hey it's guest alien character but really played by my bestie"

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 03:52 PM

@[SB118] Rahman Like hiring an actor's RL SO for aguest role.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:52 PM

fighting against subconscious metagaming affecting your writing

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:52 PM

Psychopaths are always fun to play

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:52 PM

Yeah, the use of secret accounts can be really interesting depending on the group (edited)

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:52 PM

likewise if you have a specific set of players playing antagonist roles

I like to let them confer with each other out of character on their own

away from the rest of the group so again there's more discovery directly in sim

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:53 PM

Just have an admin account that is separate from your characters and randomly post stuff that is throwing spanners in the work... or developing a story a long

1

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:53 PM

That's a great way to let antagonists plan off screenm while keeping an element of surprise for the players

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:53 PM

I guess that would be the other dark side of meta gaming to me

not necessarily power simming

but just breaking immersion

it's honestly like that old rule in writing

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:54 PM

Yeah, once players start questioning 'how does your character know that?!' the supension of disbelief is broken

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:54 PM

it's not a good thing if your audience/reader already knows something that your character doesn't for far too long in general

Narica 09-Dec-17 03:54 PM

indeed

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 03:54 PM

agreed.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:54 PM

they'll get bored at the very least

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:55 PM

Unless it becomes a running joke, agreed. It has a tendancy to make the character feel stupid - and no one wants to feel stupid!

Skoll 09-Dec-17 03:55 PM

Depends on whether the GM can build the anticipation of what is coming up... especially if said player doesn't know when its coming

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:56 PM

OK, we're on 5 minutes left - any last questions or thoughts on metagaming for good and bad?

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 03:57 PM

Does anyone have a most memorable example of metagaming? Good or bad?

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:58 PM

The classic example of tabletop 'that bad player looked in my GM's notebook...;

1

2

Narica 09-Dec-17 03:58 PM

eeek

I don't have any too too dramatic tales with it, I mostly wound up watching from a distance

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 03:59 PM

Aye. I had an XO that read a post that didn't even happen on the ship, and then proceeded to go Superhero about the plot line and solve it herself with just a phaser and an escape pod.

2

Jme 09-Dec-17 03:59 PM

yikes

Narica 09-Dec-17 03:59 PM

o_O

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 03:59 PM

When we called her out on it, it ultimately ended with her being kicked because she went thermonuclear on eveyrone for 'holding her back'

2

Skoll 09-Dec-17 04:00 PM

The Rambo solution

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:00 PM

eesh, sounds like it was for the best

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 04:00 PM

Basicaly

For sure, Jamie

RAdml Toni Turner 09-Dec-17 04:00 PM

JUst want to say this was a very interesting subject Jamie. Thank you for being so kind to bring it to FallFest.

2

4

Stephen Hunter UK 09-Dec-17 04:00 PM

Thaks very much!

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:00 PM

I gave mine ,but wow, Rambo there is the most amusing

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:00 PM

OK! @everyone - we are going to transition topics! For this hour the topic is Serial vs. Episodic storytelling

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 04:01 PM

Where's the recap?

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:02 PM

And again, we'll start with a quick definition. Serial storytelling is something with an overarching plot. You have to watch the episodes in order. Examples: Star Trek DS9 dominion plotline, Avatar:The last Airbender, Firefly

aio 09-Dec-17 04:02 PM

Love all of those btw.

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:03 PM

Episodic is a mission-by-mission or show-by-show plot. Each bit is contained. Examples: Early TNG, monster of the week shows, most sitcoms

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 04:03 PM

I actually try to do a bit of both.

Narica 09-Dec-17 04:03 PM

I like a combination.

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 04:03 PM

The episodes are all independant, but there's an arching plot that spans the missions

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:04 PM

If we look at RPGs and TV shows we find that frequently both are used; but you can often define one as being ' primary' over the other

Skoll 09-Dec-17 04:04 PM

TBIL does both... we followed the teen wolf plot as best we could for as long as we could before going our own way... Dread doctors were the last thing we did before moving on to the riders of the apocalypse being drawn to town by the actions of the pack and the destruction of the dread doctors. Magic has its consequences always.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 04:04 PM

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 04:04 PM

actually I would say all of TNG really, @Jme

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:05 PM

So we'll start with a shout out; tell me whether you prefer serial or episodic and/or whether the game(s) you play are more serial or more episodic

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 04:05 PM

I like self contained missions and players have characters that can make their own character arcs

Skoll 09-Dec-17 04:05 PM

I have no preference... I enjoy both

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 04:06 PM

I like both and hope episodic story telling doesn't go away. Sometimes it's nice not have to be caught up on 30 previous hours and just sit down and enjoy a self contained story after a long day

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 04:06 PM

In Star Army, we typically have episodes (missions) but they're part of an ongoing saga, unless they're stuff like the holiday shoreleave hotel funtime side-story

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 04:06 PM

I do both, with a focus on episodic

Lt Cmdr Baylen Anders 09-Dec-17 04:06 PM

I like Serial but with episodic mixed in from. Time to break things up like a wacky shoreleave or an odd ball mission

Narica 09-Dec-17 04:06 PM

I really need a combo of both. I want to have both world issues and plenty of time for more personal scenes

2

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:06 PM

I prefer serial with epiosidic elements through out

To be fair, though, modern writing is episodic over serial

which loses some elements of old Trek, I find

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 04:06 PM

You need that long arching plot to world build

1

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:06 PM

I CO a starbase, so I lean more heavily on serial, with some episodic 'breaks' from the main plot

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 04:06 PM

for the decisions to have consequences

aio 09-Dec-17 04:07 PM

I helped write a story like that. Was like a Hydra within Starfleet

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 04:07 PM

It's good to be able to build up to a climax, in terms of literary structure, and then have a conflict and a resolution per episode.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 04:07 PM

I like the episodic story in the forefront with the serial ongoing story in the background format

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:07 PM

I prefer each serial to have some bits of an overarching episodic plot

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 04:07 PM

Serial would be hard for me to accomplish as a GM. Something to try.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:07 PM

Kinda like Babylon 5 had their constant callbaks.

aio 09-Dec-17 04:07 PM

people could still write their own storys, but they were overall part of one main plot line

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 04:07 PM

so you watch or play a mission that you can jump into but it also contributes maybe to some longer running plot

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:08 PM

I think both have thier advantages and disadvantages.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 04:08 PM

that you'll finish in a blockbuster/season finale

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:08 PM

I'm going to play Devil's advocate for a moment and toos out: I think episodic storytelling is easier for a new CO/GM to start with

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 04:08 PM

In terms of the timeline it helps to have episodes so you can explain away the gaps in between missions as times where boring stuff occurred.

Lt Cmdr Baylen Anders 09-Dec-17 04:08 PM

I like have that one archenemy that’s looms over everything that pops up from time to time

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 04:09 PM

definitely

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:09 PM

Episodic breaks the action down into bite-sized pieces, so you're more likely to get a satisfying conclusion

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 04:09 PM

and also it's just easier to manage

you start fresh with the next mission

Narica 09-Dec-17 04:09 PM

I only have so much tolerance for long-term archenemies before I start to go "why aren't you dead already" >_>

1

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 04:09 PM

don't need to keep track of long running story threads

makes it easier when new players join and old players leave

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:10 PM

Here's a good question, since we have a variety of games represented - how many of your games have the plots run solely by the GM/CO and how many of your games encourage players to submit plots?

Because that will also affect your overall serial / episodic story flow

Narica 09-Dec-17 04:11 PM

I think the only ones of the first type I've done are tabletop, and even then the GM would usually incorporate people's stuff/ideas into the main plot

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 04:11 PM

I'm open to suggestions but I primarily do plots based on my ideas, so the former

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:11 PM

I've only seen the first work out well.

I mean, occasionly I'd see someone submit a plot that people used, but it wasn't a reliable thing

Lt Cmdr Baylen Anders 09-Dec-17 04:11 PM

I love that at 118 any player can submit a plot idea

1

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:12 PM

I've seen some submitted plots

They aren't always usable. =/

(this is in general)

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:12 PM

I use a lot of successful plots submitted by my players; but some are an episode that isn't tied with the overall storyline. I'd argue that's fine because the storyline can often get dark and heavy and sometimes you need a break

Lt Cmdr Baylen Anders 09-Dec-17 04:13 PM

Even if it’s not run but another idea comes from it, I think it’s awesome sometimes when it’s Captain only even the episode style starts looking the same

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:13 PM

in abstract, like

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 04:13 PM

We have an interst check forum where people can post plots they had an idea for or ideas for plots they want to see RPed.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:13 PM

"We got to the Alpha Quadrant, and fight off a telepathic invasion of this colony world"

is a plot type I've seen

and that's also generally allthe detail you get

interesting, but hard to impelement

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:13 PM

But, to use a real world analogy - if you're running a serial plot and you are using player submitted plotlines, you really need a 'Kevin Feige' in your game to keep your 'MCU' on the right track.

1

It is easier to do a serial plotline when you have one head GM making sure that plotline stays stable

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:14 PM

On the flipside:

taking plot ideas from players? Means the plotline will usually have an interesting variety

and yeah, you want something stablizing the plot

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:15 PM

True. Players can be far more creative than tired old GMs at times.

Lt Cmdr Baylen Anders 09-Dec-17 04:15 PM

I think that’s were the Wiki is an awesome tool for keeping the MCU on track

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:15 PM

but that only really works if all GMs a) use the wiki

Narica 09-Dec-17 04:15 PM

yeah, having players submit/suggest stuff combined with staff oversight works well, barring a situation where what you want vs. what the players want is very different. In which case that's a bigger issue.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:15 PM

and b) collaberate to make sure every ship in the fleet uses the same plot

this is progressively more difficult the more GMs you have

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:16 PM

That said when a serial plot is done well, it's a thrilling thing. As a player I love seeing things connect and old plot threads get tied up in new storylines.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:16 PM

to kinda get back to the main thing

I like serial plots

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:16 PM

The hard part is getting an overall plot sketched out.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:16 PM

They're fun, a llow a lot of characters time to build up major changes

but I feel that a good sim weaves "downtime" in the form of episodic stuff here and there

also allows say, time to settle plot threads down and resolve any issues

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:17 PM

@everyone - Ok, we're at the 15 minute mark, time to focus on Serial storytelling: pitfalls to avoid

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:17 PM

Consistancy issues

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:17 PM

So ou want to add a serial plot or serial elements - that can be a huge pick me up for your game, but there's pifalls.

We already touched on one: adversaries that wear out thier welcomes.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:18 PM

If in ep 1 you say The Romulans Are Staying Away.. they need to definitly stay way through eps 2-3 unless something has changed (so that in ep 4 you say "The Romulans are staying away" and they haven't shown up.)

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 04:18 PM

proper pacing

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:18 PM

that is, if you write a serial on a premise, you need to make sure you maintain the premise unless you intentionally mean not to

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 04:19 PM

keeping interest/momentum

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:19 PM

@Kylindra agreed, you can't just go changing your plot idea halfway through. You need to make long lasting decisions

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 04:19 PM

what starts out exciting on mission 1 might putter out by mission 4. plus you might have new people by mission 4 who aren't as in love with what the people came up with in mission 1 who aren't even there any more

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:19 PM

@[SB118] Rahman That's a tough one. What solutions do you have for keeping interest in a long running plotline?

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:19 PM

also, if say, you're premise is "At the end of this, we are destroying Starbase 118 and repalcing it with Starbase 119"

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 04:19 PM

so you have to be able to adapt

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:20 PM

.. you need to make sure the serial feels like you earned that destruction

Nadeko BOT 09-Dec-17 04:20 PM

@Kylindra Quote Added

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 04:20 PM

I think you have to check in with your crew

make sure they're still invested in the storylines

they shouldn't feel it's a chore

Narica 09-Dec-17 04:20 PM

pacing is important, also hitting a nice balance of impact and consequences.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 04:20 PM

if they're saying, "I wish we could do this..." then embrace it

instead of feeling trapped by some master plan you might have set up months ago

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:20 PM

Hey, no.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 04:21 PM

That's a good point. I like to do a player survey 3 times a year asking for plot ideas, how they think I'm doing, who's being helpful, etc. (edited)

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:21 PM

Trapping people in badly written plans is a time honored tradition of railroading.

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:21 PM

I'm going to pose that one thing which helps player investment is the feeling of accomplishment. So if you have a long term storyline, you need to think up smaller goals along the way that can make the players feel accomplished

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:21 PM

And if so many GMs do it, it can't be wrong, can it!?!

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:21 PM

Eeesh, railroading >.<

Do we need to define that one for everyone?

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:22 PM

(but yes, I agree with Rahman there. You need to make sure your serial doesn't become railroady. It has room for players to change it.)

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:23 PM

@[SB118] Rahman - agreed. I think sometimes the best serials have an end goal, but no forced way to get there; which allows for more player flexibility

And as much as player may love serial storylines, honestly a great episodic game is better than a bad serial one

Lt Cmdr Baylen Anders 09-Dec-17 04:25 PM

We did a one year mission once and that got really old because there was breaks to break up the mission

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:25 PM

Ok, next point of discussion: Super Mario Syndrome. How many of you guys have played in a game where every time the players get close to the adversary... Surprise! Your badguy is on another planet?!

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:26 PM

oh god that thing

Narica 09-Dec-17 04:26 PM

ugh no

like, if you don't want to defeat the big bad right away give them lieutenants.

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:26 PM

I think this goes hand in hand to the point @Narica was making about badguys wearing out their welcome - when do you just let a badguy get caught/killed?

What's the expiration date for adversaries?

And what can make an adversary last longer?

Narica 09-Dec-17 04:28 PM

keeping them in the background really gives them a longer shelf life to me

Lt Cmdr Baylen Anders 09-Dec-17 04:28 PM

Like a shadow figure that’s pulling the strings ?

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:28 PM

I feel a good adversary can go on for a few years

Narica 09-Dec-17 04:28 PM

the more we're directly interacting the more I go "ummm why not just shoot them k?"

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:28 PM

but that type of adversary is like.. say, Dukat.

Who is an adversary, yes, but not always an enemy

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:29 PM

Truth @Narica - the more chances the characters have to stop them but somehow don't the more frustrating it gets for the players

@Kylindra Shades of grey villans can be wonderful.

So, story time - what were your guy's personal favorite villians or longest lasting villians in your games?

And what made them so compelling to you?

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:30 PM

Prendar.

runs

Jess 09-Dec-17 04:31 PM

I love Prendar... he'll also be back in the future lol

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:31 PM

(More seriously, Prendar IS a villian, and he's compelling because you can believe that he's doing what he thinks is right, but it's also not)

Lt Cmdr Baylen Anders 09-Dec-17 04:31 PM

I like the bad guy you understand and can root for. You almost understand them and can feel there pain

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:31 PM

want to explain for people who might not know who Prendar is?

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:31 PM

he also is good because he poses more of a intellictual obstacle rather than a "pew poew"

Okay, so Prendar, in the 118 universe is a member of not-Section 31.

(they aren't at all part of the Federation, despite having their hooks deep in)

Narica 09-Dec-17 04:32 PM

I'd joke about my character being a bad guy but I'm not sure it's wrong.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:32 PM

he's an inquisitor, ovre say, an enforcer, and poses often a devil's look at character actions

which performst he most important role of a vilian to me

he makes the characters go "Am I right?"

"Did I do the right thing?" and forces growth

.. that said, he'll also stab you in the back without hestiation if it futures his goal of (not letting the galaxy be devoured)

Nadeko BOT 09-Dec-17 04:33 PM

@Kylindra Quote Added

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:33 PM

.. so it's why he's very much a good villian

Nadeko BOT 09-Dec-17 04:33 PM

@Kylindra Quote Added

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:33 PM

Having a villain reflect the heores is a great storytelling trope

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:33 PM

His overall goal is to save others. But do the ends justify the means? Well, that's what you're supposed to decide from watching him.

Jess 09-Dec-17 04:33 PM

yeah he has good reasons and a conviction behind what he is doing. He believes in what he is doing is right... is he not just an "off the hook maniac"

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:33 PM

... miss him a lot, actually. Huh.

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:34 PM

On the flipside, what were your most memoriable episodic villains - one and done, went out in a blaze of glory?

Lt Cmdr Baylen Anders 09-Dec-17 04:34 PM

Yes I love the “Mirror” bad guy

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:34 PM

uh.. one and done..

Narica 09-Dec-17 04:34 PM

funnily enough I think I stumbled into the mirror bad guy thing accidentally a bit but yeah.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 04:34 PM

hm.

Bleh, I'll have to think on that. None really stand out

Narica 09-Dec-17 04:35 PM

I did have a lot of fun with the murderer we ran into recently who ran off on a holographic octopus before getting in a fight wiht the captain but I'm biased there.

2

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:35 PM

I'd agree that was memorable!

But it brings up a good point - how do we make episodic villans more memorable?

What does the episodic formula give us that we can work with?

Lt Cmdr Baylen Anders 09-Dec-17 04:36 PM

Give them a clear background the players understand

And care about

Make them Relatable

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:37 PM

Or (Devil's advocate) can the one-and-done nature of an episodic villain mean that they can be over the top?

aio 09-Dec-17 04:37 PM

Dont make them invincible.

Lt Cmdr Baylen Anders 09-Dec-17 04:37 PM

Almost like somebody wouldn’t mind having a beer with if they were not crazy

Narica 09-Dec-17 04:38 PM

they can be a bit more over the top, yes. Because the consequences will be a lot more obvious and immediate

you don't have to figure out how they could reasonably escape/stick around

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 04:38 PM

Overarching enemies don't necessarily make something a serial

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:38 PM

I think @aio has a good point - an episodic villain can't be invinicible if they're only around for one story

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 04:39 PM

Yes exactly

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:39 PM

No, overarching enemies are only one part of a good serial; but they're a common issue that can make or break an ongoing story

@everyone - last major topic. So you're ready and you're planning a serial plotline. What tips do you have to share for creating an overarching plot?

aio 09-Dec-17 04:41 PM

As I said, I wrote a plot for a TF I was running. For me, I wanted it to have a lasting impact.

Too many stories end and everything is back to normal.

I made the plot so that it could never go back to normal.

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:42 PM

@aio so one of the keys is to change the setting from the actions in the plot

aio 09-Dec-17 04:42 PM

Yeah

Like I said, its a common plot device, especially on TV, where you can blow something up in one episode and its fixed, back to normal or nothing happened in the next episode.

So I wanted ot leave my mark, per say. Not because it was all about me, but because I wanted it to never be the same.

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:43 PM

makes perfect sense. Sounds like a powerful storyline

aio 09-Dec-17 04:44 PM

It was huge.

It was a Hydra like organisation within Starfleet.

Jess 09-Dec-17 04:44 PM

Make the plot flexible. Don't plan too much because every plan will be thrown over by players lol but if you only make key-points that can fit into more than just one fixed setting there are more ways for creativity and giving players the chance to shape the plot themselves

1

Viper 09-Dec-17 04:44 PM

When I plan out a serial plot, my goal is still to present it through a series of episodes that still each have a beginning, middle and end. That helps make it bite-sized enough to not be too hard for people to later integrate into or whatnot.

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:45 PM

@Jess - I think knowing your game, that carrying on plot elements helps foster the idea that character's continue on and change. There's a alot of serial storytelling at the character level on your ship.

aio 09-Dec-17 04:45 PM

Exactly that. I knew what my endgame was, actually no. I knew where I wanted my endgame to end up. But I let the writers get there themselves.

1

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:45 PM

@Viper - That's a great way to do it, and it gives you safeguards if you have to change things

Viper 09-Dec-17 04:45 PM

When we talk about desingin a group-wide one, as opposed to a sim specific one, we are by its very nature talking about doing that sort of thing. But on a single sim, when we pursue a serial plot, it's trickier to not just let a single mission run on and on and on.

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:46 PM

Endings are hard, unless you start with the endpoint. I think that's a really important point @aio

Viper 09-Dec-17 04:46 PM

I'd agree in regards to the ending

aio 09-Dec-17 04:46 PM

yeah

Viper 09-Dec-17 04:46 PM

You have to know where you're going before you start

aio 09-Dec-17 04:46 PM

If you dont know where you are going to end up, how can you get there.

Viper 09-Dec-17 04:46 PM

That's why some shows like B5 succeeded and others that just kind of made it up as they went were so confusing.

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:46 PM

@Viper I imagine that it also depends on how close together your game groups or ships are in space.

If you have three ships in the same sector that limits how much one can change the landscape and politics on their own as opposed to if they're halfway across the galaxy from one another.

But I love the idea of fleetwide or game platform wide story arcs; though I also admit that doing those can be a lot like herding cats

because every game on a platform tends to have a slightly different theme / mood and vision

aio 09-Dec-17 04:48 PM

I think about 4 other sims took part in my arc

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:49 PM

That is awesome

aio 09-Dec-17 04:49 PM

maybe 5

Like I said, it was a huge arc

about a year or two

Even after I moved on from TFCO, the following TFCO who was my XO kept it going.

Iv been told, not being bigheaded, but that it was one of the best story arcs they have written in

Viper 09-Dec-17 04:50 PM

I did a study a while back of about 10 different arcs designed in Bravo Fleet for TF or Fleet wide stories. My findings were that, generally speaking, the ones that succeeded the best fit into two categories: (1) either championed by a small group of sims that had tight knit communication between them, (2) or those that defined an ecosystem rather than a plotline. The ones that tried to implement a tight serial scheme across a loosely connected group of sims crashed and burned more often than not.

aio 09-Dec-17 04:50 PM

I hope I was one of those

[GEC] Kai1701E 09-Dec-17 04:50 PM

@aio you big head

We all said that in confidence

Viper 09-Dec-17 04:50 PM

You fit into category (1) with your arc @aio

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:51 PM

@Viper That makes a lot of sense. When a plot is championed people get excited about it and an ecosystem gives flexibility

Viper 09-Dec-17 04:51 PM

It wasn't that it was a generally accessible story to loosely conected sims but that those that participated were fairly well integrated together from the perspective of communication.

Narica 09-Dec-17 04:51 PM

yeah, that seems pretty sensible to me as well.

aio 09-Dec-17 04:51 PM

It was all down to communication. As a TFCO I was all about communication. If you dont communicate well, a multi sim arc will never work.

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:51 PM

I've seen some pretty good plt arcs where the overall theme cntrolled the plot, but each ship could make thier own missions and put their own spin on it

agreed. Communications is prime. Even just at the game level

Viper 09-Dec-17 04:52 PM

It's not an overly surprising finding, but it gives a good lens when you think about designing stories. When you look at your group, you have to decide how well connected it is communication wise. The most communication, the more likely you are to pull off a plot-oriented arc, whereas if its looser, your goal is simply to build more of an ecosystem to increase the writeable surface for your writers. This holds true at the game level or the org level.

2

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:53 PM

Great point!

OK, we are coming up upon the hor - any last thoughts, questions or comments about serial or episodic storytelling?

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 04:54 PM

We handled a lot! :)

aio 09-Dec-17 04:54 PM

Yeah

So far I am really enjoying Fall Fest

Kinda want another one lol

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:55 PM

Hopefully there will be another next year!

And there's still another session to come

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 04:55 PM

It's not over!!!

aio 09-Dec-17 04:55 PM

Exactly!

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 04:55 PM

Seeing the turnout, I bet there will be

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 04:55 PM

^^

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:56 PM

Well, thank you everyone who came to these sessions and for your awesome discussion and ideas!

Jess 09-Dec-17 04:57 PM

thank you so much for your time Jamie! It was great

Narica 09-Dec-17 04:57 PM

thanks for running them.

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 04:57 PM

I can't wait until the next session because yours was so great!!

Lt Cmdr Baylen Anders 09-Dec-17 04:57 PM

They were great

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:57 PM

It was great to see everyone and meet everybody!

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 04:58 PM

Thanks so much @Jme !

Jme 09-Dec-17 04:58 PM

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 04:59 PM

Greetings channel... we meet again I see... Stares at the room the channel is in questioningly

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:01 PM

Hi folks! My name is Griff, and for the next hour or so, things will be getting romantic in...

dramatic tension

The Love Corner.

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 05:01 PM

stares

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:01 PM

Dum dum duuuun

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:01 PM

flops on Griff

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:01 PM

plays cheesy romantic music

There...

Camila 09-Dec-17 05:01 PM

puts on Bad Bromance parody of Bad Romance

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:01 PM

cant fight this feeling

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:01 PM

anymore

Narica 09-Dec-17 05:02 PM

covers ears

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 05:02 PM

I'm hooked on a feeling

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:02 PM

Since I’ve been writing a romantic thingymabob with @GingerBorg for the last year, it did feel appropriate.

Camila 09-Dec-17 05:02 PM

What is love?

Don't hurt me

No more

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:02 PM

NCC 6969 Penetrator

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 05:02 PM

Stop in the name of love!!!

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:02 PM

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:02 PM

LOL

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:02 PM

I love everyone; half of my writing is romance

... I lke this channel already

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:02 PM

Dang, I love you guys.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:03 PM

dang, maybe I should be hosting this shindig, seeing as how I've two of my writing boyfriends in this room

@Griff, please don't be jealous, @Chistery is a really nice guy

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:03 PM

Well considering my username is a hommage to a yuri romance story I wrote

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:03 PM

I’m on the prowl for a writing boyfriend lol

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:03 PM

I guess its only fitting I end up in this channel

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 05:04 PM

First topic?

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:04 PM

Nope, not jealous in the slightest. I won’t be hunting him down at all...

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 05:04 PM

Yes you will!!!

Mama Bear 09-Dec-17 05:04 PM

And a writing girlfriend

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:04 PM

Well, I figured we might as well start off with the most basic question: how do you recognise when your character is attracted to another? How do you recognise when two characters have chemistry?

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:04 PM

you'll have to hunt me down twice...both Arturo and Daytona

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:04 PM

oh, hey az!

Mama Bear 09-Dec-17 05:04 PM

Hey

Carde 09-Dec-17 05:04 PM

Well have fun all, I am terrible at this subject in writing and real life

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:05 PM

With the romance story GingerBorg have done, it happened mostly by accident as our characters just gradually grew close.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:05 PM

Hum... I usually plan it OOC but IC usually my girls notice that they want to be around the person; strike up conversation a lot; get jealous when they are around other girls

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:06 PM

Well, chemistry between characters often has more to do with the chemistry between writers

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:06 PM

Yes!!

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:06 PM

I try to plan OOC as well. And, GB is correct.

1

Narica 09-Dec-17 05:06 PM

I know of a couple types my characters like, so if someone fits I might talk to their writer and see what happens

1

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:06 PM

Well in writing this sort of stuff you knid o fhav eto work well together

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:06 PM

you just find someone you really enjoy writing with and let things go from there

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:06 PM

otherwise it will not work

Mama Bear 09-Dec-17 05:07 PM

I have to agree

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:07 PM

for three hours of sleep my typing is actually not that bad

lol

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:07 PM

It's probably best to plan it out with the other writer. Otherwise, you can come off like a creep (for male characters anyway)

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:07 PM

Yup, I was going to get to that next. How important it can be that the other writer is someone you actually enjoy writing with.

Narica 09-Dec-17 05:07 PM

I especially have to since my characters aren't usually interested in monogamous relationships, and people tend to assume otherwise.

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:08 PM

@Aitas Indeed. That can be complicated.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:08 PM

Even on the sites where I go just for romantic and erp I have to like the person im writing with as a friend from an OOC standpoint. It is why I have to talk OOC with them first

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:08 PM

Trying to decide if someone is playing hard to get or really wants you to back off without body language is problematic.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:08 PM

to know what they want to do where they want to go and more about them as a writer

god it sounds like I am talking about dating with how I said that

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:09 PM

If I don't know the writer well, I'm really careful to make sure that I'm not overstepping.

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:09 PM

I’m actually better at writing romance that IRL. Sad

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:09 PM

same here lol

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:09 PM

same

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:09 PM

we are a sad bunch

Mama Bear 09-Dec-17 05:09 PM

Same

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:09 PM

We’re all sad together.

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:10 PM

Yup, you’re all echoing the same things I was thinking.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:10 PM

we should all pat pat one another

Carde 09-Dec-17 05:10 PM

I would take the skills in either of them

Mama Bear 09-Dec-17 05:10 PM

This is why I'm in a relationship with a cat

2

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:10 PM

Cats are awesome.

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:10 PM

I am in a committed relationship with coffee.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:10 PM

one of my characters is in a relationshhip with a andriod

Carde 09-Dec-17 05:10 PM

Cats rule

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:10 PM

targs drool

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:10 PM

Hell, my character is in a relationship with a nearly immortal fox girl...

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:11 PM

hum

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:11 PM

hey, she's not 'immortal'!

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:11 PM

your crowd sounds quite interesting

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:11 PM

El Aurian. Close enough.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:11 PM

the more I talk the more I want to write

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:11 PM

Arturo was once in a relationship with that Fox Girl. Then a real tool who ruined everything by being creepy.

Mama Bear 09-Dec-17 05:12 PM

I was an android dating a liberated borg

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:12 PM

Yelp. Interesting.

Narica 09-Dec-17 05:12 PM

my character has to tease one of her lovers when he gets back cause he was gone and missed out on the chance to sleep with her hot author friend.

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:12 PM

And eventually got himself banned from Theta.

Mama Bear 09-Dec-17 05:12 PM

Then married jer

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:12 PM

we would be here if I had to list all of my romantic exploits

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:12 PM

I also play the ships AI and shes dating a hologram

I wonder if that counts as dating yourself

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:12 PM

This is turning into a Monoui’s Internet Boyfriends chit chat.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:12 PM

@[TNU]Atsumari okay, that sounds cool

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:12 PM

I was in love once with an entity that existed outside of spacetime

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:12 PM

But Arturo is now happily attached to a snarky blind chick

You dated my mom???

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:13 PM

My sim is interesting but honestly I am just getting to where I want to write with people

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:13 PM

Sarcastic and blind is a winning combo. Heh.

Anywho, onto Question 2: romance is exciting and exhilirating. How do you avoid it overshadowing the main story?

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:14 PM

First: Have a main story.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:14 PM

make it a subplot its what I always do

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:14 PM

well 'main story' and 'subplot' are nice words, but they don't mean squat if you don't pace yourself

Narica 09-Dec-17 05:15 PM

make sure your character has plenty of other things to do and also isnt' the sort to let a romance take over their entire life

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:15 PM

well my group is a chat based game mostly

so things just happen

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:15 PM

Have regular discussions OOC with the other party to finely tune things.

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:15 PM

Yeah. We have run into this, where our own sub-plot nearly took precedence.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:15 PM

if you put out 5 romantic posts before the rest of the crew can finish a main plot JP, then you're moving WAY too fast

2

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:15 PM

heh

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:16 PM

pacing is also really important to consider when you look at real time compared to sim time

like Griff and I have been dating on the Pandora for over a year, but in sim time it's only been like 3 months

and they're already living together, he even lampshades this in character by saying there's fast and then there's blood transwarp!

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:17 PM

Even for three months, we have been rather fast, although we did turn that into a plot point.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:17 PM

in my sim the CO and XO have dated like 3 weeks IC knew each other 6 weeks. OOC he has been a part of our group since March

The ships AI and her hologram partner (which was designed to teach her about dating and humanity) have been together likea month

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:18 PM

Hmmm....I really don't know how long Arturo and Xiulan have been together. Things were slow on their first sim and now are slow on Vindex.

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:19 PM

Between simtime and real time, it can be hard to pace yourself, yup.

Camila 09-Dec-17 05:19 PM

I had a very touching romance on my sim that started at the beginning of one mission, went through shore leave and turned into a relationship at the beginning of my current mission. It was very well played out, in depth and with meaning to it. It turned into freedom for one character in a cultural way and a new world for the other character. It didn't overshadow the mission, and was very well paced.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:20 PM

@Camila well done

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:20 PM

I tend to gravitate toward “off ship” relationships personally. Like a crew member of another fleet or allied vessel. My most satisfying writing relationship was with a character that I only got to see when docked at a Starbase.

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:20 PM

@Camila That sounds a lot like ours, actually. Very nice.

Camila 09-Dec-17 05:20 PM

All I did was read it, @Monoui. it was two of my players and one of the better romances I've seen.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:21 PM

The newest relationship on my sim is touching; its sad too so the ships new security chief had her boyfriend declared MIA; a search detail eventually found him dead. The ships Vulcan CMO offerred to help teach her to control her emotions

and it only grew from there

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:21 PM

awww, that's sweet @[TNU]Atsumari

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:21 PM

to help her deal with the loss of her previous partner

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:21 PM

Ah...the old "let me help you control your emotions" routine. Vulcans are famous for that.

Camila 09-Dec-17 05:21 PM

I was on another sim and my Yeoman fell in love with an El Aurian cadet over the space of shore leave and through a mission and a half. The CO called it an elaborate tango that he loved.

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:21 PM

A relationship with a Vulcan character sounds hard as hell, but also very rewarding.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:22 PM

it is

Camila 09-Dec-17 05:22 PM

You want a Vulcan to love you, give them chocolate.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:22 PM

but what was great is when she funally opened up to Erin and did a meld with her

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:22 PM

I’m still pretty new on the Nogura. Although Raygi is a bit of a Manwhore lol

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:22 PM

they shared parts of each other you normally couldnt

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:22 PM

So Chapel should’ve just given Spock chocolate and they would’ve been together.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:22 PM

and it made them bond more cause they learned about each other

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:23 PM

Also, grief romances are tricky. IRL those kinds of relationships are somewhat doomed because this codependancy evolves that often isn't healthy

1

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:23 PM

It is tricky

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:23 PM

yep the grieving persons moves on from their grief and the comforter is left behind.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:23 PM

it's something @Griff and I are having trouble balancing because both our character are very damaged individuals

Camila 09-Dec-17 05:24 PM

@Raygi Benyan, CMO, you have a PM.

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:24 PM

This is why I stopped crashing wakes and funerals in an attempt to pick up women.

Camila 09-Dec-17 05:24 PM

O.O

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:24 PM

@Chistery, you're horrible

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:24 PM

Well, that leads onto my next topic. There is a temptation to want the best for your characters in matters of the heart, but no good love story comes without trials. What kind of trials make for a good love story?

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:24 PM

another thing is one of the main cast in my sim; shes super damaged so much so that she left her son on Earth becuase she did not want to polute him with her life

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:24 PM

Yes, yes I am

[PE] Alexander 09-Dec-17 05:24 PM

But they are the best to pick up women

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:25 PM

her boyfriend on the Lavie is trying to help her not blame herself for everything and wants to encourage her to go see her son

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:25 PM

@Griff that is a fantastic point! no one is going to like a story without any bumps in the road. No one wants a story that's all sunshine and rainbows because it's boring!

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:25 PM

OMG @Camila that’s hilarious

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:26 PM

In reference to Romance. What about Commanding Officers. Does that make it more difficult? Do they not have a romance, especially with crew, to ensure no preferential treatment?

Camila 09-Dec-17 05:26 PM

I thought you'd appreciate it with your comment, @Raygi Benyan, CMO

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:26 PM

It’s a fine line to walk.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:26 PM

Yuka doesnt care; the ships psychologist even brought that up to her. But there are a lot of CO XO reltaionships anyway

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:26 PM

@Monoui Hence why your suggestion to have Shae sleep with someone else was brilliant. Hard as hell, but brilliant.

[PE] Alexander 09-Dec-17 05:26 PM

I feel the CO romance rule we saw on the show usually gets pushed to the side on most sims a bit

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:26 PM

the question is at what point does duty trump your relationship

2

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:27 PM

yeeeeeeeah, Shae tries to pretend that never happened....

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:27 PM

I find that difficult. In a command position, you are in a position of authority and responsibility both in character and out.

1

3

[PE] Alexander 09-Dec-17 05:27 PM

ehm, I'd agree with in. Not out, but that's a different topic

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:27 PM

Ha. she did that with you, 2?

Camila 09-Dec-17 05:27 PM

My CO is married with children but on duty, it doesn't affect his duties as a starship commander

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:27 PM

Too!!

0_o

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:28 PM

@Lance_R_Violator CO romances are tricky, but a lot of that also depends on how you've characterized your CO. some COs are really just more approachable, makes it easier to engage in romance

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:28 PM

The things I’m learning today...

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:28 PM

Yuka has been put in some pretty hard situations where she had ot choose Aidan getting hurt or her doing her saving him

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:28 PM

That's okay, Shae dumped that guy for Arturo.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:28 PM

at the expense of something iwth the crew

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:28 PM

It was kind of funny.

Camila 09-Dec-17 05:28 PM

Aidan! That's the name of my Yeoman's boyfriend

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:28 PM

it is really a big thing with commanders having relationships

lol

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:29 PM

ok, in reference to the 'too', pathfinder, that's a long story, too long for this chat (edited)

1

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:29 PM

Fair enough.

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:29 PM

yeah, I'll stop bringing that up.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:29 PM

yeah, this room really is just highlighting all my exploits...

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:30 PM

This room is making me want to write more romance stories

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:30 PM

LOL. I haven't mentioned the blue lady at all.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:30 PM

Yeah there are org and sims people can't separate OOC/IC. They live their rank and positions outside of sim. But, I agree IC it's how you play the CO. My character Lance R. Violator, Capt. is hardened, crusty, and would by Jellico look like a panzy. But those that know him know him as a genuinely good person. It would take a lot to crack that exterior in a romantic way. Lance is career Star Fleet, his Lady is his ship. He is first an engineer by the by.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:31 PM

@Chistery staaaaaaaahp

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:31 PM

LMAO

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:31 PM

that is why I never refer to my characters as me

I am a game master and facilitator

im not the CO of anything

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:31 PM

I make a serious effort to avoid that as well

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:31 PM

i am the manager of a writing team

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:31 PM

Versus Raygi who sees people naked every day and lusts after every one of them

Mama Bear 09-Dec-17 05:31 PM

Remember the time Andy kissed an old gf in front of Maica and melted some of her positronics?

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:32 PM

lol

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:32 PM

That is one of my other questions (wait, a blue lady?): keeping your character separate from yourself, so you can rip their heart out if necessary.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:32 PM

Yes, I am a Simulation provider and facilitator of fun. My character is NOT me, either.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:32 PM

that happened with the CO of my old sim Shadow Fire

Alex's husband was killed

it lierally crushed her completely

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:32 PM

That's hard. We're not just writing, we're roleplaying, so a little bit of ourselves goes into the writing

Camila 09-Dec-17 05:32 PM

My CO wants to secretly be me.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:32 PM

@Lance_R_Violator that is a MAJOR point, it's very important to maintain a separation between yourself and your character. I'm mean obviously you want your characters to be an extension of you, it makes them more relatable, but there has to be a line there other the boundary between OOC and IC, otherwise it gets weird and that's when drama goes sideways (edited)

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:32 PM

she resigned after he died but was called back into service after seeing a kid die in front of her due to war

CaptRavenfall 09-Dec-17 05:33 PM

Every character I have is a little piece of me so it's hard for me to keep the separate.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:33 PM

Oh sure, @Chistery a little bit. But, not our I.D. as it were.

You are very right, @Monoui

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:33 PM

@Chistery Indeed. We did have a post at one point, with Cailus discovering Shae having slept with someone else. It got genuinely hard to write.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:33 PM

so many of you people seem so fun to write with

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:34 PM

@Griff that was incredibly hard to write, I was tearing up more than a little

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:34 PM

Yuppie.

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:34 PM

I’m just getting back into simming after a hiatus of several years

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:34 PM

it's so easy to become emotionally invested in your characters and the relationships they form, and not just the romantic relationships

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:34 PM

Just some FYI for @everyone , and I hope I'm not breaking any rules, protocol, or convention. We, USS Ares (NCC_13225) are the Official Axanar Film Star Trek Simulation/writing group. (edited)

3

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:35 PM

LCDR Arturo M'Rohass, Official Felinoid of the USS Vindex

1

sorry

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:36 PM

It is a bit of a paradox. If you want to write a character, you have to be engaged with them, but to write them well, you have to be distanced enough to hurt them.

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:36 PM

And Lance, I like that you use the name Violator in a room about romance

2

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:36 PM

@Griff, exactly

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:36 PM

I write for seven characters in my story but only focus on three at a time

alainogara 09-Dec-17 05:36 PM

I'm separate from my character but it's odd because he's also a better person than I am IRL, so while I don't attach myself to him, I do wish I was more like him... does that make sense?

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:36 PM

Yes, it is , @Griff

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:36 PM

so that way I can feel for them and be with them in their experiences

alainogara 09-Dec-17 05:36 PM

Also, hello

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:36 PM

Thank you, @Chistery

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:36 PM

@alainogara, Heyo, and yeah it does make sense

Camila 09-Dec-17 05:37 PM

Lance Violator...Romanticist

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 05:37 PM

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:37 PM

snicker that is so wrong

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:37 PM

You all should have seen our pre-commissioning story. Violator got killed and resurrected as torture, and one of my security officer was "Intimately" interrogated. Lots of counciling need all around.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:38 PM

but for all the right reasons

damn, you guys ain't messing around!

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:38 PM

I’m loving this.

Camila 09-Dec-17 05:38 PM

cackles as We Will Rock You starts to play

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:39 PM

As a ship Named Ares, being commissioned at Axanar it got races pissed and old wounds opened via bad history.

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:39 PM

Onto a more dour topic (and hush @Monoui, Cailus and Shae are fine). In real life, people break up all the time. How do you recognise when two characters are simply not working, and so break them up?

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:40 PM

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:40 PM

I can't even recognize that in real life

1

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:40 PM

awww....

Camila 09-Dec-17 05:40 PM

@Griff when your character wakes up to find the other character has a knife to their throat, leans in and whispers. "It's you, not me."

1

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:40 PM

If the story stalls, then I write a family emergency that pulls one away and they have time apart and they have the break up talk when the one gets back.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:40 PM

O_O

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:41 PM

@Camila Hey, whatever works for that character to get the blood flowing...

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:41 PM

I had that happen in my story when Yuka realized that her partner was only with her cause he wanted sex

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:41 PM

@Lance_R_Violator yeah, that's a nice bit of drama to spice things up

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:41 PM

I have thankfully avoided having to break up any of my characters.

1

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:41 PM

he saw her as a sex partner and nothing else

she thought there was something there but nope... so they parted ways and he even requested reassignment

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:41 PM

@[TNU]Atsumari Interesting.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:41 PM

Wow, a "Species with benefits", eh @[TNU]Atsumari

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:42 PM

@[TNU]Atsumari you know, there's nothing wrong with that in a character (or a person really) but only so long as both partners are on the same page

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:42 PM

well in that characters culture there was no relationships; your mate was your mate. So to him he did not understand

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:42 PM

I kinda played Andy on the Katana that way. she was emotionally committed to her GF Maica, but she slept with other people on the side, but they were both okay with that because they communicated and, well, shared their partners with each other

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:43 PM

and she couldnt explain it to him that she felt there was something more

complicated

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:43 PM

Some people are wired (or maybe socialized) in such a way that those kinds of arrangements can work out. Others aren't.

Mama Bear 09-Dec-17 05:43 PM

Yeah Maica was a former sex android so sex was no big deal to her

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:44 PM

@Chistery exactly. morals, ethics and even religion often play a roll in this during upbringing as well

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:44 PM

well consdiering my CO charaacter (Yuka) is from the 21st century

and go tsucked into the future literally

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:44 PM

Former sex android? Blimey...

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:44 PM

You know, I've found Star Trek stories have had interspecies, same sex stories for a while and it was just part of it. I don't have any issues with these, but I DO NOT like when that is the ONLY point in the story. I'm ok, with romance being on the side. (edited)

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:44 PM

certain things require her to adjust to her surroundings

also (at)everyone tags every single person on the Discord server

just keep that in mind

regardless of if they are here or not

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:45 PM

@Lance_R_Violator Bravo! this is another stellar point. casual sex is fine, relationships and romance are fine, but it shouldn't be done 'just because', it should contribute to character growth

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:45 PM

Yes, @[TNU]Atsumari that is why I removed it. It gets messy.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:45 PM

Just making sure you understood

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:46 PM

YES!, @Monoui

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:46 PM

Yup, I have to agree.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:46 PM

one of my characters was going things for casual sex (the damaged girl I mentioned)

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:46 PM

I am absolutely ok. With being corrected. I am a guest and appreciate your patience with me. I shall endeavor to continue to be a good guest.

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:47 PM

@Lance_R_Violator You’re a fantastic guest, mate. I’m glad you’re here.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:47 PM

I think that's the most important part of doing an RP romance, it should contribute to the story and character development

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:47 PM

It is my pleasure and honor. Thank, you.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:47 PM

and I wasnt saying anything bad @Lance_R_Violator you are doing just fine like Griff said; was just making you aware of how Discord works. So many people dont know fully about it

1

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:48 PM

Yes, romance, should be a contributing factor NOT the whole thing.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:48 PM

and as a discord partner I should help people understand it better

1

so all is well in love and war

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:49 PM

Oh yes, @[TNU]Atsumari you are absolutely right. Thank you for the heads up. I run 3 servers of my own. I want to be a good guest. I am humbled by the patience being shown, thank you.

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:49 PM

Yup, that’s been a thing with us. The romance should usually make narrative sense and service the plot, not the other way around.

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 05:49 PM

All this today, is the most I've ever used Discord, myself.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:49 PM

agreed, it should never be the focus, but it's still an important part of that character's plot. it can become a point of contention, forcing the character to chose between love or duty, or it can be a driving force, enobling them to be a better person or even a better officer! but the romance should effect the characters involved

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:50 PM

romance to me always leads to char dev

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:50 PM

I mean you wouldn't have a whole story on someone's ANGER, why a whole main story on romance as the main point. Who cares about the sexuality of it.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:50 PM

even erotic scenes to

*do

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:50 PM

exactly, it's character development at its finest

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:50 PM

Actually, if you can get your crew to join, having a discord channel is very helpful in coordinating romance stuff between characters. less cumbersome than Nova PM

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:50 PM

I tyr to make sure everything contributes to the characters overall story

and advances them as a person

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 05:50 PM

sometimes you would have acutal stories based off anger and romance, assuming everyone agrees

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 05:50 PM

Just avoid love triangles between players that don't get along

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:51 PM

yeah

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 05:51 PM

Where one person could potentially lose

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:51 PM

@everyone, got some good stuff going on in here!

2

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:51 PM

poly works if you do it right

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:51 PM

@[TNU]Atsumari been there done that

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:51 PM

@Ikate Keda Studios God, yes. We actually have done that (sort of), and it only worked because all three writers were mature and smart about it.

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:51 PM

NCC6969 Crosspollenator

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 05:51 PM

But what if it doesn't

Jack Pine 09-Dec-17 05:52 PM

I like doing relationships

alainogara 09-Dec-17 05:52 PM

My guys are too straight laced for multiple partners.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 05:52 PM

im wondering if anyone has tried a FMFM pairing

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:52 PM

Well, I say “mature”. I was coaching Monoui on how to seduce him.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:52 PM

On our discord, USS ARES-Official Axanar RPG, we have a General -OOC channel, a channel set aside for live sim'ing, and of course the Staff, and CO-Ready Room for Command staff of the sim. So in the live room they can do their thing and submit it as a log for log count.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:52 PM

actually, there's some great drama and character development to be had if things don't work out

Jack Pine 09-Dec-17 05:52 PM

Two of my characters are married

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 05:52 PM

You have one player trying to make both other /players/ happy, you've got one roleplayer just trying to win the girl, and one character trying to write a story around this relationship

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:53 PM

Sweet Christmas, that’s complicated.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:53 PM

@Ikate Keda Studios wow, that sounds intense

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 05:53 PM

It was

It ended terribly

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:54 PM

Yeah that is a situational quesen-art.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:54 PM

but there's a lot of growth potential there when these things end so badly

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 05:54 PM

Well

One character shot herself in the head

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:54 PM

O_O

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:54 PM

LMAO

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 05:54 PM

Yep

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:54 PM

okay, that's not so good

alainogara 09-Dec-17 05:54 PM

Oh

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 05:54 PM

She missed tho!

1

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:54 PM

Yes, character is not forged in tepid water, but in fire and ice.

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 05:54 PM

ONly went into a coma for 7 month

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:54 PM

LOL, she missed!

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 05:55 PM

No one will let her down

"You missed your brain at point blank how?"

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:55 PM

narrow beam

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 05:55 PM

.45 bulet

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:55 PM

I'm a horrible person for laughing at that, but I don't care

alainogara 09-Dec-17 05:55 PM

Storm trooper crossover

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 05:55 PM

My character XD

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:55 PM

Well, we have five minutes left folks, so I’ll open it to the floor, although it isn’t really necessary since this is a fantastic discussion. Does anyone have a romance-related topic they want to chat about?

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:55 PM

LOL

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:55 PM

What, @alainogara , a cross dressing Trooper? Interesting.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:56 PM

amg, I love this room so much

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 05:56 PM

She was a 5 year old alien who had just started experincing intense emotions being pulled around by the love of her life beig told "You can have her, you can't have her" over and over

alainogara 09-Dec-17 05:56 PM

A little kinky but sure

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:56 PM

damn

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 05:56 PM

She eventually cracked and shot herelf

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:56 PM

...Bloody hell.

Ikate Keda Studios 09-Dec-17 05:56 PM

There is only so much one little alien brain ca take

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:56 PM

But how would you tell? Do they wear "stuff" under or just the different gender armor? Oh well, romance.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:57 PM

okay, open floor, to smut or not to smut, that is the question

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:57 PM

Again, it depends on how mature and friendly the writers are.

Carde 09-Dec-17 05:57 PM

Smut works as a key part of a story, not just for the sake of smut, then you transition intto something else.

alainogara 09-Dec-17 05:58 PM

Writing about relationships in a G rated sim can be tricky

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:58 PM

obviously, there are often fleet or sim rules to limit this, so how much implication do you thread into your posts that your characters are engaging in an intimate relationship?

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:58 PM

I like to keep our chat R+, but no specific details.

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:59 PM

@alainogara We were wondering if we were pushing your boundaries with the claw marks and the kitchen table.

Chistery 09-Dec-17 05:59 PM

LOL

alainogara 09-Dec-17 05:59 PM

Mate I'm just glad my Turbolifts haven't been violated

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 05:59 PM

You know explicitly explaining tab A going into slot b. Not needed, just a line saying for the next hour they made love emphatically.

Griff 09-Dec-17 05:59 PM

@everyone Okay folks, our hour is up, and you’ve been amazing. It’s time to clear out to Overflow 2.

Monoui 09-Dec-17 05:59 PM

from my point of view, you don't want to beat your readers over the head with it, but- OMG, I can't believe you just said that @Griff

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 05:59 PM

Ohhh overflow one

alainogara 09-Dec-17 05:59 PM

Lol what a note to end on

Monoui 09-Dec-17 06:00 PM

LOL @alainogara give it time....

we'll get around to the lifts eventually....

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 06:00 PM

Hi everyone. I’m back just in time for our last session.

Deleted User 09-Dec-17 06:00 PM

WB!

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 06:00 PM

I hope everyone has enjoyed the day.

Let’s begin, shall we?

Bravo Fleet is celebrating its 20th Anniversary. Our history isn’t a perfect one, and our current leadership is very much aware of both the damage and our positive contributions to the community at large. We’ve made mistakes, and we’ve had some recent success stories. Much of our recent success can be attributed to our player base, as we’ve listened to a variety of feedback and made many adjustments. Throughout this hour, I’ll be reflecting on some of BF’s successes and current missteps, and we want to keep this open as well to hear what other group leaders have done, and even what other players have to say about their experiences.

Let’s begin with a simple question: What do players look for in its leadership?

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 06:02 PM

Guidance and clear communications

1

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 06:02 PM

for me, I look for a leadership group that is willing to make changes for the fleet and not just what they want, a leadership group that wants to listen to its members and actually wants to do right by them, a group that wants to make changes to benefit everyone. I don't like a leadership group that is only in it for themselves or politics

a leadership group that doesnt care for its members is a group I dont want to be a part of at all

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:03 PM

A sense that the leadership is connected and cares about it's fleet

3

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:04 PM

Greets. I am Lance R. Violator. I am the sim provider of the Official Axanar Film Star Trek Simulation/Writing group. I am a U.S. Navy retiree, with normal and combat leadership/mentorship. I bring this to the org and listening to the group I hear the desires change/the situation. But, overall, understanding, to be listened to, and to feel they have a piece of the sim, and to be valued. When someone feels valued and listened to you get more out of them.

aio 09-Dec-17 06:05 PM

I think leaders who listen. If the players feel like the leaders listen to them, and take the time to appreciate them, they are more likely to want to write.

Goes back to communication. Without good communication between the leaders and the players, nothing will happen.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:05 PM

We are story driven, not how many properly formated reports we can generate.

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 06:05 PM

I also look for a leadership group that actually cares and acknowledges the hard work that goes on, even by members who aren't, or dont want to be in a senior leadership role, but also acknowledges that there are lots of great people out there who want to be more active, and they encourage them to be more active, even in the smallest ways. Those are the things I look for in leadership from a fleet

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 06:06 PM

All excellent points.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:06 PM

Hard question for me due my relations and experiences with fleets.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:06 PM

As for acknowledgement I'm creating the letter of appreciation, ribbons and medals. I'm a graphic designer (multi-media) and trained typographer.

We are independent BECAUSE alll of us have been burned by groups and orgs. We bring the lessons to our org, not the sour grapes. (edited)

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 06:07 PM

I think it is even then more important to voice your thoughts @Carde

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 06:07 PM

Let’s look at communication. I’ve seen leaders dictate, and others nod their heads, and others have listened and done something about it. Obviously no one likes a dictator, but at what point does communication, possibly even over communication, cross a line?

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:07 PM

Cause to be honnest a fleet to me is a resource a place to find some writers. Leadership wise I expect the worst as in either being power hungry or in just being silent and not caring.

Ideally what I would want to see are people who want to serve the sims as a whole and create a better enviorment which is something I am seeing a bit now in bravo fleet, but my time here as a CO has been relatively short

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:10 PM

Yes, @[22] greenfelt there is a discussion time and a decision time. But it depends on what's being discussed. Story ideas, anyone can submit that, but it's the providers responsibility to ensure the framework of the story is out therre and to allow the group to fill in the blanks and to be situationally flexible to let the story be as organic as possible, but always probable. You can beat a horse to death, but one needs to point it out with diplomacy and tact, if it has been over communicated.

aio 09-Dec-17 06:11 PM

I think when it becomes all about 'the leader' and not the fleet.

1

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:11 PM

Yes, @Carde leaders or mentors need a greater than self mentality. Think of the situation as an inverted pyramid. We are not at the top but we are AT the point and server the mass.

aio 09-Dec-17 06:12 PM

Well as a leader of, not just a group, but a fleet, I see myself from a players point of view.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 06:12 PM

Personally I don't believe in the concept leadership, yes it is required evil that needs to cut ropes. But in the end we are serving the Players in their best interest and creating an enjoyable writting community. A place where everyone write without worries, we as leaders are there to facilite those players

aio 09-Dec-17 06:12 PM

We are here to serve the players.

1

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:12 PM

In my own experience in a fleet role (small fleet mind you) as R&D head I always tried to come up with new tools and help people fine tune any of their sugegstions. The key there was that I never wanted to shut down ideas unless they where well foolish or just totally not fitting within the universe of star trek. Sadly I have from the other side experienced a lot of people who just wanted their own things and would shut down anything else, you could write down an excellent piece and they would be like it aint canon so bugger off (something that to a degree I still see happen). Bewing in charge of anything is difficult and the higher up one gets the harder it gets to keep doing a good job and remembering what matters. On the other hand it can be hard to be lower in the scale and perhaps not understanding why some decisions where made cause people did not communicate well.

aio 09-Dec-17 06:12 PM

If the players wernt here, why would we need to be? You know?

1

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:13 PM

Yes, we are accountable for the enjoyment and providing the opportunities for that enjoyment. We can delegate responsibility for certain facets, but in the end we are ultimately accountable for the fun factor and it's failure and success.

aio 09-Dec-17 06:13 PM

Exactly.

So on that topic, what do you see at a negative,when it comes to leadership?

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:14 PM

This a deep lesson I learned in the U.S. Navy and in combat.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:14 PM

Cult of personality

aio 09-Dec-17 06:14 PM

At what point, not communication but in general, at what point does a leader simply become ineffective?

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:14 PM

Explain, @Kylindra

aio 09-Dec-17 06:14 PM

Yeah, please elaborate @Kylindra

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:14 PM

The biggest negative is anyone who wants to be in a leadership role for the power it brings.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:15 PM

Okay, so. In a fleet I was in once, the leader had near ultimate power in placeing people to ships

and also could control to an extent (by having people who agreed with him), if a ship could survive or not

(or get made)

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:15 PM

The truth is the power is with the players. A leader that thinks the power is theirs doesn't get "IT" to begin with.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:15 PM

Now, granted.

I don't think this happens in any real fleet with rules anymore

.. I hope.

Nadeko BOT 09-Dec-17 06:16 PM

@Kylindra Quote Added

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:16 PM

@Kylindra you can get the ship going, but there won't be many fresh ideas. Due to the yes men.

aio 09-Dec-17 06:16 PM

Yes men.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:16 PM

but if say, you have a faction of three people on a five man board

aio 09-Dec-17 06:16 PM

If you surround yourself with Yes men, you are destined to fail

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:16 PM

... yeah, you're going to be able to do vendettas.

and at taht point, youi are essentially hoping that osmeone doing something for free will be professional at all times, and that .. might hold nine out of ten times

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:17 PM

I put it in writing that the job of my XO is to kick my butt when needed. Get me going when I need to, and kick my complacency from time to time.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:17 PM

I hate yes men, hell in anything I debate with people with polar oposite ideas of mine because it keeps me thinking.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:17 PM

so, mlti perosn leadership can create factions around people.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:17 PM

I tell my crew to slap me on the wrist if I am not keeping up.

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 06:17 PM

@aio I'll be honest here, a leader becomes ineffective when the message is not getting through and you don't see the same encouragement from those you work with. I'll be honest, I was a TFCO for four years and as I got closer to when I resigned, I knew that the messages I wanted to send to the CO's in the TF just wasn't getting through. That was when I felt that it was time to step aside and bring in fresh leadership

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:18 PM

but to be fair, it's a leadership issue when you have large fleets and need structure. =/

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:18 PM

But, as for ineffective leadership. I seen a 20 year group NOT Beta, ruin themselves by the good ol' boy network, and "leadership" thinking they knew best for all.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:18 PM

Fleet leadership is always tricky because sometimes the full picture isn't available to the general membership

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 06:18 PM

there are times when you have senior leaders who stay in their role for years and years and years and it is like "when will this person ever leave" or you start getting rumbles and rumors that people are not happy with what that person is doing. It is at that time when a leader needs to think about stepping down

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:18 PM

The danger to me is I know I am a very overbearing personality who is also quite direct. It is something I warn COs about whenever I join a sim and they want my advice on things.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 06:18 PM

For those that don't know all the verbs: Task Force Commanding Officer - TFCO Task Force Executive Officer - TFXO Task Group Commanding Officer - TGCO Commanding Officer -> Gamemaster - CO/GM (edited)

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:19 PM

Clarity and transparency is key so all know the end goal and keys

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:19 PM

I mean, yes.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:19 PM

It's why transparency is so sought after I think as the ideal

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:19 PM

But the fullest possible picture should always e available to the general membership

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:19 PM

Here's a leadership lesson.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:19 PM

That is a reality I have to deal with when I am in charge I always need to remind myself to let others speak and listen and because of knowing that I do that (or so I hope, perhaps some do not dare to talk I could now know)

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:19 PM

The roller rink test.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:19 PM

so they can go "Oh, yeah, that CO was forced out .. can we see the transcript of why?"

instead of going

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:19 PM

but conversely, if you have a complaint from a member for instance about a CO

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:19 PM

"Uh.. I guess I'll trust you."

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:19 PM

should that be broadcast to the rest of the fleet?

or dealt with the other COs and that captain in question?

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:20 PM

I wave back and forth on that.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:20 PM

IRT @Rahman yes.

aio 09-Dec-17 06:20 PM

I think there are some things that shouldnt be shared.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:20 PM

But.. yes.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:20 PM

All can learn from the example.

But don't continue to relive it and crusify the person

aio 09-Dec-17 06:21 PM

Question for @everyone "What changes have leaders in organizations done to help keep the art of simming alive?"

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:21 PM

Cannot answer that one, out of the command seat to long and now back to shortly for me to give an opinion on that.

Phoenix Lalor 09-Dec-17 06:22 PM

Thats a bit unfair.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:22 PM

(Also damn it is hard to give my opinion and remain polite and emotionless I must say)

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:22 PM

Well, one exampleI can think of is the use of contests to drive participation

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:22 PM

Ok, Roller rink leadership lesson: You stand in the middle and tell everyone, every person where to go and how. You will notice it's not effective. 2nd round you stand in the middle and tell everyone the goal and what you learned from the first round and inform them the goal is how many people can get around as many times as possible. You set safety rules and you'll see the result is 100x better.

Phoenix Lalor 09-Dec-17 06:22 PM

And it is a loaded question. You are asking people to trash sim orgs. That is not what Fallfest should be about

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:23 PM

er.. wat?

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 06:23 PM

@Phoenix Lalor it is not a loaded question, it is asking for opinions and view points, which is what this is about.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:23 PM

If anything, you should be able to think of "well, my organization did this neat thing."

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 06:24 PM

using personal experiences, I know what I have seen that works and what doesn't work, and even thought I've been part of two fleets, and I left my last one over a year ago, I would never ever speak ill of them or what they do

aio 09-Dec-17 06:24 PM

Simming, as an art, is a shrinking genre.

Theres no question that simming isnt what it was. It was aquestion about what leaders have done to keep it going?

Sepandiyar 09-Dec-17 06:24 PM

Sadly true

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:24 PM

On the note of stepping down, it is not an easy thing to do I been there and so far all the times I have stepped down by it siming or gaming org/guild whatever related the whole thing fell to bits within 3 months.

The only time things kept going was when I was not the founder of it.

Raygi Benyan, CMO 09-Dec-17 06:25 PM

I have only been back in simming for a month after a five year hiatus. I don’t think I’m really qualified to offer an opinion.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 06:25 PM

It is not our intention to bring up open wounds or dish any group. We are looking for the positive side in the question. Like @Kylindra said

@Phoenix Lalor

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:25 PM

I find that stuff like academies and (in a fleet) having shared looks helps a lot to keep thigns going. Also, te adoption of things like.. well, discord helps

aio 09-Dec-17 06:25 PM

No one is asking anyone to trash anything. We had a talk in an overflow room, in regards to the use of Discord, on this subject.

[SARP] raz 09-Dec-17 06:25 PM

I'm one of those Star Armys, but to the last "everyone," I think expanding our RP/simming space beyond our central canon was a pretty cool thing that helped out community grow.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:25 PM

This subject will always open up old wounds here, but that is alright

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 06:25 PM

@aio I'll give a good example to your intial question.... Bravo Fleet moving from a Fleet CO/Fleet XO to the Fleet Command Council, and having that in the format that it is right now

aio 09-Dec-17 06:26 PM

nods

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:26 PM

Those of us that have been around since the mid to late '90s have learned the lessons of the failures and success of organizations. - Like NOT listening to the group, or - NOT laying the plan of action out, -explaining an actual reason why things are difficult or won't work. - Rotating personnel out, so fresh stuff can happen and not stagnate - having less reports and focusing on the fun

Phoenix Lalor 09-Dec-17 06:26 PM

@RaWolfe it gives discontents a chance to air their grievances while saying "dont take this the wrong way but" i have no time for blame game or comments from people who throw hissy fits.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:27 PM

The reports an clear example of simming needing to get better with tech to automate that stuff

cause most stuff in reports should just be something an API should pull

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 06:27 PM

@Phoenix Lalor that what the @deleted-role team is here for

We wont allow that

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:27 PM

What

Phoenix Lalor 09-Dec-17 06:27 PM

Frankly i am calling that question a bullcrap question

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:27 PM

is the difference between how bravofleet used to do it and now

@Leam-Mark can you expound further

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 06:27 PM

@Phoenix Lalor if you don't like the question that the moderator has asked, don't answer or respond

aio 09-Dec-17 06:28 PM

Bravo Fleet used to have a CO then an XO

Last year we adopted a CC or Command Council

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:28 PM

Yes, @Phoenix Lalor We openingly express what happened then learn from it. I use to advise personnel that came to me in the U.S. Navy and in the sim'ing world to pay attention to other's mistakes. You will make enough of your own. You don't need to make everyone elses' mistakes too.

aio 09-Dec-17 06:28 PM

where by 3 members of the Admiralty are elected to the Command Council

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:28 PM

Do you have split level command councils?

Ah, k

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 06:28 PM

what @aio said

aio 09-Dec-17 06:28 PM

so instead of having one person at the top, its 3 people stearing the ship.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:29 PM

How was the old CO chosen out of curiosity?

aio 09-Dec-17 06:29 PM

Either vote or sucession.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 06:29 PM

Yes we have a Bravo Fleet Command COuncil and a Bravo Fleet Admirality

goldun 09-Dec-17 06:29 PM

Ah so you brought yourself in line with other fleets then... cool.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:30 PM

I've seen those formats fail too. It depends on the HOW it's implemented and the capacity of all to flex with the situation.

aio 09-Dec-17 06:30 PM

Exactly

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:30 PM

No system is perfect

aio 09-Dec-17 06:30 PM

We didnt know if it would succeed.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 06:30 PM

My fleet uses the "benevolent overlord" method so far. >,>

aio 09-Dec-17 06:30 PM

But we were flexable about how we implimented it.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:31 PM

Communal cooperation, communication, and maturity always win the day in any system. You just have to find what works and be flexible enough to change when the group dynamic changes.

aio 09-Dec-17 06:31 PM

And its worked for us. We have accomplished so much in the last year.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:31 PM

" . . . the only thing constant is change . . ." -Dr. Demming

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:31 PM

That is why I will always tell anyone to host their own sims, it just gives you freedom and if all sims do it also a powerfull vote as in, yyou get in line as a command council or we are gone. But if sims are hosted by those in charge, they in essence hold them captive.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:32 PM

I mean, there are pros and cons to both

being part of a fleet that provides the infrastructure is nice

aio 09-Dec-17 06:32 PM

Exactly. There are pros to having one person at the top, but there are also pros to having 3.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:32 PM

But also, ". . . when in command, COMMAND, . . ." - Adm. (Bull) Halsey

aio 09-Dec-17 06:32 PM

Having 3 at the top has been amazing for BF.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:32 PM

I don't have to go out and recruit for my ship directly. our academy takes care of the training, etc.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:32 PM

In the end the real question is what power does a fleet need to wield at all?

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:33 PM

Depends strongly on the character of the fleet

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:33 PM

and then the "cost" is that yes the "ship/sim" remains part of the larger fleet and not mine

I'm just taking care of it

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:33 PM

Also, how much ou care about the consistancy of the shared universe

there are multiple levers

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 06:33 PM

@aio I'll say its been amazing, the amount of things that have been changed or implemented off the backs of what the membership has asked for or suggested has been phenominal

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:34 PM

We are a sim and a half right now, but I have a structure and procedures set up for us as we grow. That system and procedures change as we do. So situational flexibility and mature responsibility to a shared goal is a great foundation.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 06:34 PM

Utimately the job of a fleet is supposed to be making it easier for ship people to run their ships, right?

aio 09-Dec-17 06:34 PM

Exactly

As I said before

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:35 PM

Maybe?

[SARP] raz 09-Dec-17 06:35 PM

It's nice to have a leader who cares first about the survival of their fleet/RP and allows other leaders under them to handle day-to-day character stuff. Players come and go, as do storytellers, so having a constant and neutral party is awesome from what I've experienced. (edited)

aio 09-Dec-17 06:35 PM

without the players and COs on the ships, there is no fleet.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:35 PM

Well that is the idea, but I have sadly had to experience the polar oposite a lot more often

aio 09-Dec-17 06:35 PM

So we are here for them.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:35 PM

I care about the people. The sim/org will take care of its self after that.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:35 PM

I'd argue that 118's Fleet structure (sorry to use you as an example, Rahman) doesn't actually make it easier to run ships, but easier for people to play on ships they want to play on and to write with others.

And that's fnie

*fine

(to be fair, I'm not convinenced it makes it harder to run a ship either.)

aio 09-Dec-17 06:36 PM

I think, realistically, it doesnt matter how you run it. 1 at the top, 10 at the top. Doesnt matter. As long as they listen and work for the players, if it works, it works.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:36 PM

Again, when people feel cared for and valued the org benefits.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:36 PM

(It's just aimed at the players, not the GMs)

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:36 PM

Are we only talking about Bravo Fleet this hour in room one?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 06:36 PM

I guess you could say a huge part of fleets' appeal is by way of being big, they help their member sims get found.

aio 09-Dec-17 06:37 PM

No, Leadership in general.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:37 PM

I suppose someone like @Jme or @Jess would be better able to answer in that regard of whether the fleet helps with making running the ships easier

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:37 PM

yeah, that's true

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:37 PM

compared to their previous experiences

outside of 118

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:37 PM

My experience with seeing ships run is uh..

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 06:37 PM

I mean, anyone can make a roleplay forum, as in the software and site, in 30 minutes and call it a ship.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 06:37 PM

The overall approach of how to manage a fleet, organization or writing group difference from one to another. Bravo Fleet and Obsidian fleet uses a Triad and Admiral board tactic. Where as SB118 takes the line structure tactic. Somehow it works for various groups and everyone approaches this differently

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:37 PM

.. limited.

Take what I say with a small grain of salt.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:37 PM

For me as a CO let me run my boat and if I need help I ask for it and I will check with the fleet if certain things I want to do are alright canon wise. Really that is all I want, hell I even forget half my reports cause I just do not care (which can very well be considered a bad thing I admit)

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:37 PM

Or a large one, maybe..

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:37 PM

a long time ago, I ran a ship in another fleet that had much less support, so I've found 118's infrastructure helpful

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:37 PM

Yes, some people want a large org, others have been burned badly by them. That is why we are independent. We are so good we got offered to be the flag ship of a reforming org. We politely declined because we had all been burned by that org.

Jess 09-Dec-17 06:37 PM

Personally to me it makes it a lot easier. I feel like I have a safety net and so many people that support each other if something is up.

2

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:38 PM

Yes, as we get larger, the goal for us will be CO's run your ship, and here are the universial parameters. Have fun.

Jack Pine 09-Dec-17 06:38 PM

My character is admiral of a small fleet

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:38 PM

I will say that larger fleets (118, Bravo) do a few things that I feel are a good thing for simming.

Jack Pine 09-Dec-17 06:38 PM

11 ships

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 06:38 PM

(Controversial statement: I'd be very unlikely a fleet that says Starfleet Marines are a real thing in their universe)

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:38 PM

They say "Hey, we've done this before. We know what we're doing. You'll know what you're doing with us."

and that's reassuring.

Jack Pine 09-Dec-17 06:39 PM

6 light cruisers 5 guided missile frigates

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:39 PM

Here's an idea of my mentality. I could promo myself to fleet admiral. But we are so small that I've put my characters promo in the hands of the crew. My character will not be promo'd until they feel it ok.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 06:39 PM

That is something you get over the years @Kylindra , we have seen drama and we have learned our lesson from it

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 06:39 PM

I like Marines and all, even though I was in the Army, I got no beef with them. But Starfleet's never had a marines branch lol.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:39 PM

Guess it depends on experience and character I am by nature someone who is like get shit done and leave me the fuck alone cause I can handle myself and if I cannot I will ask for your help. Granted at times that means you go flat on your face and learn from it. But if people try to give me constant overwatch and comment on all I do it would be like hell and not fun.

[SARP] raz 09-Dec-17 06:39 PM

When I'm responsible for telling a story, that's personally my first priority. I am overjoyed to have other players around me sharing in that story, but have found that it's best for the players to rely on me driving the mission forward rather than hand holding them. We're all there for each other. The captain/GM is just the person generating a unified narrative.

2

@[SARP] Wes y u no like MACO?

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 06:40 PM

Pssssh

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:40 PM

I mean I started a sim independent with a vice admiral as captain cause that fitted the whole setting perfectly, at that time and even now bravo fleet would never OK that. Hell my captain is a commander cause of a silly fleet rule.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:41 PM

Maturity in a leader/mentor is also a must. Be able to learn and acknowledge when you've fucked up. Shows humility and that you can accept responsibility. That gets players to respect you.

3

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:41 PM

I say sorry to my players constantly lol

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:41 PM

To me linking IC ranks to OOC stuff is a big mistake in any fleet.

[SARP] raz 09-Dec-17 06:41 PM

That's true.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:41 PM

Yeah

BubbleLord 09-Dec-17 06:41 PM

Never apologize

Only meme on em

aio 09-Dec-17 06:41 PM

hehe

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:42 PM

Roger we have our IC rank then we just volunteer for stuff to do to support the org.

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:42 PM

I am rarely right in my GMing, but my players like the story and setting enough to cope with me

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 06:42 PM

It's harder to retain leadership in sims than in a job because you're not able to pay them or anything, in most cases. Literally the only thing they get with a promotion is more responsibility.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:42 PM

So @aio Consider that a suggestion, remove IC ranks from OOC matters.

2

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:42 PM

Fun is the key. Who cares if you get a color or a detail wrong.

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:42 PM

Carde: YES

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:43 PM

eeh. I dunno. Having IC rank tied to some OOC stuff is helpful

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 06:43 PM

Whoa, I'm very picky about my colors.

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:43 PM

Unless you're my Co GM, your opinion is equal to every players'

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:43 PM

@[SARP] Wes yeah, retention of staff members is something that I think doesn't get as much focus

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:43 PM

if only to say "this person has been here long enough that we think they'll be here longer."

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:43 PM

as of course new player retention

aio 09-Dec-17 06:43 PM

@Carde Ill bring it to the CC

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 06:43 PM

VERY picky about colors https://stararmy.com/wiki/doku.php?id=stararmy:uniforms:colors

aio 09-Dec-17 06:43 PM

Question for @everyone "What works from a leadership standpoint in keeping a group together? What doesn’t?"

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:43 PM

You have some that WEAR their IC rank like it's real. I pulled our sim from an org because people did that.

1

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:43 PM

@ing everybody shows bad leadership :P

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:43 PM

true, that's a thing.

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:43 PM

Jk jk

Narica 09-Dec-17 06:44 PM

Personally I'm much more interested in helping out OOCly with stuff than shoving my characters into being in charge.

BubbleLord 09-Dec-17 06:44 PM

Supplying memes is #1

aio 09-Dec-17 06:44 PM

Again, not for trashing, not a loaded question. Just in general terms.

BubbleLord 09-Dec-17 06:44 PM

Keeping an active OOC chain of communication is the other

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:44 PM

Caring for the people, OOC matters. ONLY focusing on the IC as important does NOT.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 06:44 PM

There are those that love the rank, that’s no question. Personally, I prefer leaders who are there to be a service to the community.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:44 PM

As a leadership you have to ensure people have fun

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:44 PM

What works, though, Aoi

Toughie

BubbleLord 09-Dec-17 06:45 PM

I've had RPs move slow in the recent years, but maintained player loyalty and involvement simply by reassuring and keeping discussion alive.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:45 PM

A good leader can't stand alone. There has to be roles that others can step up into to help. Not everyone wants to command a ship (or is able to) but could contribute to the health of a ship or fleet still

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:45 PM

But a good main Admin does it for me

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:45 PM

building a sense of community, like having "We're all watching Amok Time on Sunday 32nd" events, or "Hey, submit your sim to the Best Writing Contest" , really helps

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 06:45 PM

Those who listen to the player base, and make changes and adapt to the shifting waters.

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 06:45 PM

what works? I think some people have said it, not having people in such roles who care for the rank that it is comes with. Rank is just an OOC tool, nothing more than a couple of words in a signature, as @[22] greenfelt said, it should always be about the fleet membership, about the whole fleet, not that one person

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 06:45 PM

Man, this conversation is so interesting but my dog is scratching the hell out of my door so I'll brb (edited)

1

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:45 PM

@[22] greenfelt To me a rank is always IC, for OOC power I have run things publicly from the top or been a key person behind the scenes in ways that only the person on top knew it and no one else did

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 06:45 PM

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:46 PM

I'm normally a behind the scenes, logistics guy, but many people find I'm commanding a sim and, unfortunately, quit what they are on and scramble to mine.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:46 PM

As for building people around you as a leaders you need to be able to spot potential and those you can trust and work with those people.

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:46 PM

I don't really think leadership should adapt to players lol players can come and go but the leadership should understand their views, morals, canon, everything, is what will last... Unless they bow to the whims of every player

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:46 PM

what.. doesn't work, obviously, is uh.. hm.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:46 PM

If I trust some one and I get an application in for example I will pass it to those people for some feedback

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:46 PM

I think this cna be kinda obvious, but if you want to do outreach, publicity, maintance, you should make sure you have more than one person doing each, and especially not one person doing all of them?

Tonytonitone 09-Dec-17 06:46 PM

Leadership is being flexible

Jack Pine 09-Dec-17 06:46 PM

I work with my players and let them choose how things progress through their rp

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:47 PM

It helps me in getting more opinions on things and makes those people feel appriciated.

Tonytonitone 09-Dec-17 06:47 PM

And adapting to any situation

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:47 PM

I get people that are opposite, and different than me in personality and thinking to keep the options of play and fun open and going. We cultivate each other to be better all around.

aio 09-Dec-17 06:47 PM

Adapting is key.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:47 PM

It can really feel, even if it's actually not the case, that you'r being overworked

Tonytonitone 09-Dec-17 06:47 PM

If you can’t bend and flex people won’t have fun. Dictatorial writing should be done alone.

aio 09-Dec-17 06:47 PM

As I have said a few times this morning, simming in general is a shrinking genre. If we dont adapt, and move forward, we die.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:47 PM

Dictators need to just write novels.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:47 PM

mm as a leader I am who I am and people will have to deal with that or find an other place. I am not going to change who I am for anything or anyone

Jack Pine 09-Dec-17 06:47 PM

I never tell a player flat out no without hearing them out first

2

Tonytonitone 09-Dec-17 06:47 PM

Indeed.

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:48 PM

I don't really bend or flex in that I don't let people break rules or something I have established as a GM and if someone tries to do so they need to be told no (edited)

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:48 PM

But then I am quite open in general to what people have to say so that is part of who I am already

Tonytonitone 09-Dec-17 06:48 PM

A friend of mine on stararmy.com has a policy of just say yes

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:48 PM

That said, I hold a stricter "you need a certain level of quality to d things" than most people do?

Viper 09-Dec-17 06:48 PM

Leadership is to me about curating and cultivating a strong community and ecosystem in which to write

1

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:48 PM

So I'm not sure that's a valid thing for a community to adopt

Tonytonitone 09-Dec-17 06:48 PM

And he has one of the best bits of RP there

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:48 PM

@Jack Pine Always let people talk and finish unless they talk bullshit

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:48 PM

Carde gets it

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:48 PM

(like my attitude towards things is "No. But convince me otherwise."

2

Jack Pine 09-Dec-17 06:48 PM

Exactly

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:48 PM

Jack is p good about that

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:48 PM

(.. because I like being proved wrong? I guess? I)

1

aio 09-Dec-17 06:49 PM

I would never say No to an idea, right off the bat.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:49 PM

Random question: how big is Bravo Fleet right now? How does every ship CO exercise his or her say in fleet matters?

Tonytonitone 09-Dec-17 06:49 PM

Not bending and flexing, not pleasing people will leave.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:49 PM

I am close to 50 years old. I know from experience one must change with life. This is true in all situations. The one that can not change will not be happy and those around them will leave due to that unhappiness. Change or be alone. Have core values yes, but no one knows everything. Learn, adapt, be flexible, it gets stagnant if you don't.

Jack Pine 09-Dec-17 06:49 PM

I know where we need to go but the players have to decide how to interpret the map

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:49 PM

If someone comes to me saying, "I know you said X but I want to do NOT X!" When we're on a team mission.... lol

Tonytonitone 09-Dec-17 06:49 PM

Your players are customers, and you are the business. If you don’t have what they want your business won’t work out in the end.

2

Leam-Mark 09-Dec-17 06:49 PM

CO's can speak with their Task Force CO and can have concerns taken up that way, or on Discord via PMs directly to the admiralty.

Tonytonitone 09-Dec-17 06:50 PM

Flexibility means creativity

1

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:50 PM

@Tonytonitone The customer a) isn't always right and b) sometimes you DO need to fir that bad customer

2

1

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:50 PM

Lol

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:50 PM

I love to discus things with people even if I know we have a oposite view on things, but I know people I can talk to about religion or politics that are polar oposites, but we respect eachother and damn you learn so much from that

That same skill I try to keep with me as a leader to always listen, but also be able to make a call in the end even if that will upset some people.

Viper 09-Dec-17 06:50 PM

@[SB118] Rahman that's a big question and I'm on mobile now but happy to ping you later to answer that question

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:50 PM

so yes, you need to walk that line

Tonytonitone 09-Dec-17 06:50 PM

Well that’s part of being flexible.

aio 09-Dec-17 06:50 PM

Discord has become somewhat the default communication method for BF.

Tonytonitone 09-Dec-17 06:51 PM

You know when to say yes and when to say no.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:51 PM

@Viper Thanks! I always like comparing how different organizations have tried to tackle similar issues such as fleet leadership

aio 09-Dec-17 06:51 PM

COs talk to their TFCOs, who bring it to the whole BFA.

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 06:51 PM

Bravo Fleet has 5 Task Forces, With various numbers spanning from 10 sims in one tf to another having 22 sims. They can voice their problems towards their staff in that task force. This can either be done in the Discord, Email or Forum. But we also use the monthly reports to reach out towards our players

Tonytonitone 09-Dec-17 06:51 PM

Mind you I’m not speaking of extreams

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 06:51 PM

@[SB118] Rahman we have over 60 sims in the Fleet, and while every CO has an ability to have an impact in the Fleet, not all exercise it.

Many like to keep to their own, and that’s okay. We let them.

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:51 PM

Cool question Aio!

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:51 PM

I've been combat, I KNOW when and how to make tough calls. Sim'ing is easy. It's a group writing project. With common goals, and with communication the group can get there, learn from it and do better next time. (edited)

Tonytonitone 09-Dec-17 06:51 PM

As a game master I ask my players a simple question: what do you want to happen with your character?

aio 09-Dec-17 06:51 PM

Last quarterly report we had 67 sims.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:51 PM

UFOP: SB118 is only 7 ships so we haven't had to think on that scale yet

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:52 PM

Believe me I speak up when I feel the need to and I am always afailable for anyone wishing to ask me about things and hear my opinion

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 06:52 PM

Very true @Carde and we always listen

Jack Pine 09-Dec-17 06:52 PM

I have to rethink now because after Tuesday two super carriers to my fleet

Are added

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:53 PM

However I also do tend to keep my seperation cause in the end I understand my views will not always be shared and by not taking ownership in feeling of the fleet that allows me to remain more distanced and perhaps cold about it.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:53 PM

For open forum I'd like the question of: What are reports for and what are they good for? Are they made just because they always have been? Our org has NO reports. We concentrate on the story, NOT reports. Again for open forum.

1

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:54 PM

Reports can be good and useful for reference but there can also be the trap of making too much paperwork

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:54 PM

As I said I dislike reports and the raw numbers really should be pulled by an API system.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 06:54 PM

Reports, at least in BF, are used to report crew updates, story updates, community requests and award nominations.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:54 PM

especially if the way to enter in reports is made tedious

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 06:54 PM

That is the point of the reports, 1) summary of the stories, 2) crew status, 3) community request that need answering and award nomination as @[22] greenfelt mentioned

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 06:54 PM

We don’t ask for emails or sensitive info.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:54 PM

As for awards I am terrible, hell I keep telling my crew to nominate anyone including themselves for awards and they never do

Viper 09-Dec-17 06:54 PM

They provide a quick pulse when you may not otherwise hear from a CO

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 06:54 PM

My reports I do in 3 minutes or less.

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:55 PM

BTW it was Obsidian fleet that likes to wear their rank everywhere. You can't even talk to them like human beings.

Viper 09-Dec-17 06:55 PM

Some like to be super engaged and others less so and they give a base line of "how's t going this month?"

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:55 PM

O they are done quickly, but because I do not care I just forget

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:55 PM

I feel reports should be used

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 06:55 PM

No trash talking please

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:55 PM

.. but they should most likely be

Nadeko BOT 09-Dec-17 06:55 PM

@Kylindra Quote Added

Viper 09-Dec-17 06:55 PM

Only way to make sense of 60+ sims is to get those quick reports to spot where u need to look into further

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:55 PM

"We did this this month! We gave these rewards!"

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:55 PM

I mean I think most of the stuff that would matter from the reports I talk about on discord anyway right? @Viper

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:55 PM

"And we did this change to the universe!"

".. and that's it!" and then an API should pull numbers if at all possible

Viper 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

@Carde yes but not all COs do

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

why is that bot repeatedly quoting me? o.O

Viper 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

And even if you talk with me about it, others in leadership don't hear it

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

My aplogy @RaWolfe it is a statement of fact, not conjecture. But, I can see why you might think it trash talking. (edited)

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

No idea.

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

Double points @Kylindra

Viper 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

The reports are for all

aio 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

when you put .. in front of a sentence

RaWolfe 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

It's okay

aio 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

.. for example

Nadeko BOT 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

@aio Quote Added

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

oh.

Apologies. I will stop doing that

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

Oh, I just got an idea for my community. I could make a short form for the reports that automatically updates wiki articles based on the responses.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

Silly nadeko

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

.. cool RP!

Nadeko BOT 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

@Ametheliana Quote Added

Jack Pine 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

I mostly keep track of our effects in setting and how much materials/products we create

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:56 PM

That would be neato Wes

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:57 PM

Since reports can be used for community newsletters, wiki updates..

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 06:57 PM

It could have questions like "what happened in your RP that the rest of the universe needs to be aware of?"

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:57 PM

Well I guess the others in leadership will never hear of it cause well my reports are prob as spartan as could be

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:57 PM

You know you've gone too far when you have to file a report that a report was filed...

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:57 PM

setting yourself on fire..

The problem is I've seen people struggle to do reports.

Like spend two full weeks on one.

Jack Pine 09-Dec-17 06:57 PM

We also have IC news reports on Star Army

[SARP] raz 09-Dec-17 06:57 PM

It's an awesome idea, Wes, but would it be like the News forum where posts/updates must be staff approved?

Jack Pine 09-Dec-17 06:58 PM

^

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:58 PM

and that's.. I'm never sure who's fault that was because I never asked for detail (wasn't authorized/supposed to) fill that out

[SARP] raz 09-Dec-17 06:58 PM

Because we have the news forum and few people use it.

[22] greenfelt 09-Dec-17 06:58 PM

I hate to say this, but our hour is nearly up. There isn’t anything after this, so if you want the conversation to continue, please do!!!

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 06:58 PM

That's odd. I think it should just be "Hey, what happened in your RP?" And it should be easy because, really, you're already goign to have type that information for the plot wiki article's history section anyway.

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:58 PM

To be fair, I'd struggle at reports because I'm extremely terse when I write.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:58 PM

Well, on 118, the general idea is that the FO fills out the monthly ship report (who got awards/promotions and the plot summary) and there's a section for the CO to enter their assessment of the ship and report anything that's happened

Kylindra 09-Dec-17 06:58 PM

(reports for me are technical documents)

(and I took clases to be tersre on those.)

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:58 PM

But you're encouraged to delegate as well

so for instance you might have some other staff member on the ship do the plot summaries if they really want

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:59 PM

I have never heard of "reports" other than reporting inappropriate posts or IC characters' reports such as an AAR

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 06:59 PM

or someone who enjoys typing all the awards for wiki pretty much has done the work for you regarding the awards then

Tonytonitone 09-Dec-17 06:59 PM

@[SARP] Wes we could also do this utilizing our news forum.

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 06:59 PM

I have players write the mission summaries for our wiki now

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 06:59 PM

Answers for a report could be as simple as "We found a machine planet and sent down an away team to investigate, which was promptly attacked by ancient robots and offensive insectoid scavengers. On a second away mission we were interrupted by the arrival of the enemy navy."

Carde 09-Dec-17 06:59 PM

I am a lazy CO I guess, why I give my writers so much freedom meaning I never have to worry about more than the start of my mission

2

Tonytonitone 09-Dec-17 06:59 PM

Gallant actually did make a news cast that summed up recent events in Asteria.

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 07:00 PM

WOAH CARDE

OMG how

Tonytonitone 09-Dec-17 07:00 PM

Which is a good way of making it so in-character people will know events

[SARP] raz 09-Dec-17 07:00 PM

In the end, I'd rather just see people using the news board to update everyone else on what their ship is doing. Wading through threads to verify that they are true is time consuming. But if it's as simple as something like that, it could be rad. I was thinking something more expansive than what your explanation made clear.

Carde 09-Dec-17 07:01 PM

I mean if something is shown on sensors the guy who reads those out can tell me what it is as long as it makes sense that it is there. one mission I expected to ruin into some Hirogen ships and in the end it turned out to be 3 large planet killing missiles

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 07:01 PM

I never let people play sensors on the bridge

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 07:01 PM

You could always just make your reports lowkey by specifying the expected length is the length of a Twitter message. (edited)

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 07:01 PM

That would be too difficult

[SARP] raz 09-Dec-17 07:01 PM

Dude

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 07:01 PM

But you do!

[SARP] raz 09-Dec-17 07:01 PM

Twitter IC reports.

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 07:01 PM

Yeah in fact on our forms it won't let you enter after a certain amount of characters

[SARP] raz 09-Dec-17 07:02 PM

Send your reports to @whatever. (Kind of not serious).

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 07:02 PM

My ship has a twitter account

And several of my plot's PCs do too

We had a really fun time @ing one another and making memes

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 07:02 PM

Raided enemy shipyard. Killed everyone and got back the stolen starship. #bugspray

3

[SARP] raz 09-Dec-17 07:02 PM

Spacebook dot com

Lance_R_Violator 09-Dec-17 07:03 PM

A CO is ultimately accountable for the crap even reports if part of the org. So they can delegate, but are still accountable for their completion.

BubbleLord 09-Dec-17 07:03 PM

Saw Freespacers. Taught them Yamataian strength. #NekoThings

[SARP] raz 09-Dec-17 07:03 PM

(I actually only thought of the twitter thing because it doubles as an interest-grabber)

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 07:04 PM

If you had a set of autocompleting tags for affected wiki/lore items that would be rad.

[TNU]Atsumari 09-Dec-17 07:04 PM

Alrighty folks I think things are done here now.

[SARP] Wes 09-Dec-17 07:04 PM

Thanks for hosting this Bravo fleet

[SB118] Rahman 09-Dec-17 07:05 PM

Thanks, Bravo Fleeters!

Ametheliana 09-Dec-17 07:05 PM

Great