Move #panel 1 from 9:30 here.

Eh, Matt Damon knows who he is, and he doesn't change as a character through the movie. The story is focused more on how he adapts what is around him so he can survive. The technology involved in space flight. A good dose of humor. And perhaps leaving the audience to think on if they could do the same.

Well it seems like you two wee having this discussion so I'll just let you both have the fleet.; I was just stating more of a cpnceptual thing which every writer should know.

It doesn't have to involve a change of character for Watney. It's about the relationships that bring him home - if it hadn't been for who he is, his crew wouldn't have gone back for him, NASA wouldn't have been trying to bring him back - simply him being him surviving on a desolate planet was enough to convince a billion dollar organisation to pull out the stops to bring him home.

@GinaC "Tech shouldn't be the focus IMO. It should always be relationships and character development." That might be a good topic for another panel at some time. While the focus of RP communities is RP, I also tend to see a number of people who join communities for something else. For example we have a guy that just likes to make starships. No RP, just ships.

I joined 118 for the relationships and the story, not for the tech.

I think a lot of writers are the same, though I know there are exceptions.

Well, what role do those exceptions play for a simming site?

For example: Someone writes great content, but doesn't really participate in the story. How much do we accommodate such people?

Great content, but doesn't participate? Can you elaborate?

Sure! Actual names have been changed to protect the innocent: Lets call this guy Greg. He joined the site. He makes a lot of great stuff like starship art, writeups about technology/items/guns etc. Greg makes great stuff other people can use, but he doesn't really RP himself.

Someone who enjoys worldbuilding a lot more than actually playing in that world.

That can certainly be a challenge. If there's one thing I've learned in my last 15 years is that not everyone can both write and world-build. Not even a lot of GMs. I would say that if your players don't mind having someone creating things that they can use, they're worth keeping around.

Agreed! Some amazing writers don't have a clue when it comes to building a world.

In those cases I feel he doesn't feel personally connected. Finding tasks that link to character history to motivate him might be a good alternative.

In Bravo Fleet, for example, we have a lot of writers, but not all of that writing finds its way into the fleet tapestry. We also have some people who make it their job to provide for our technology, starships and even maps for reference. Those items wind up proving to be invaluable.

How to engage/connect players could also be a topic by itself

There are also some people that also just love to write or create, but don't really want to interact. I've got several players on my own game who simply won't enter our Discord. Great writers, but don't want to chat. It hasn't been a problem for us.

I don't think I've ever seen this guy RP more than a few posts over a total of a decade. If there is a way to get him engaged, I don't know what it is. The best success I've had was one of my characters buying a bunch of missiles from his corporation. Now that I say that, I think the answer is, "He's a tom-clancy type... you gotta make the story about the tech more for that kind of player."

Yeah. You never know who will latch onto that and really run with it in writing.

BUT! I'm happy to just have players make stuff and not RP. If that is how they want to have fun, who am I to try and change it?

peeks in

I try the keep a balance between RP and making content.

People should be having fun. Some people have more fun creating than interacting but the goal for creating should be for people to interact with it

Unless it is a plot point to obtain said object, then it becomes the McGuffin of the episode

Sounds to me like that person is more of a novel writer than a role player.

Possibly. Or the guy that enjoys writing tech manuals

Oof I started as a amateur novel writer

BUT roleplay is more like interactive novel writing

Well, only if you’re willing to participate!

There are different aspects of both that can be used in both.

They're not mutually exclusive- not in my experience, anyway.

If you’re just adding content outside of the game you’re not really RP’ing, you’re sorta just dictating how everyone else can RP. (edited)

I'd point to some of our members as a counter to that.

It becomes an interesting problem. Some people need tangible things to interact with in setting in order for it to feel more real to them.

We have plenty of people that do beautiful art, and though they sim, that's not their main interest.

"I need to have a picture of a gun to use it. "

Works fine for us.

@TristanWolfSB118 some context: he doesn’t write novels or stories either. He loves writing wiki articles about starships and does his own art. He is really good at just that.

Indeed, I love to sim, but there are some days when I just want to ravish the wiki, and add and add and add.

That's me, @Shayne

I love wikis.

There are days that's all I want to do.

Is everyone using dokuwiki?

It really depends on what your Sim's rules are. Some communities place a roleplay post requirement for people to be considered actual members of the community

We use MediaWiki

Has anyone tried anvil or whatever?

MediaWiki for me.

https://www.worldanvil.com <-- I literally just saw this today and haven't had a chance to check it out but it looks like it may be a neat upgrade to just MediaWiki/DokuWiki. I was wondering if anyone had tried it yet?

I have used it, but I think MediaWiki is more easy to get into and manage on a large scale.

Once it's built. Any Wiki really takes a while to lay out the foundation of.

Very true.

And it's always a work in progress.

I'm trying to clear the cobwebs out of mine after a few years.

Have you guys found any great plugins for your wikis? I’d love more capabilities

Being a Trek sim, I rely on Interwiki a bit. Other than that, I haven't added much.

Try to wrap this up in a half hour in case the other gorups need overflow ❤

What does Interwiki do?

We shall, @Josh [TNU]

Interwiki allows quick linking between wikis. For example, I've got interwikis tying my sim wiki to the Fleet wiki and to Memory Alpha

Instead of having to roll out a full URL, I just do [[memoryalpha:Trill]]

Boom. Link.

Oh that's useful!

Neat

I use it for established species or ships/bases, like DS9. I'm not creating new material for DS9, and Memory Alpha has the motherlode of information there. So, I'll just use Memory Alpha's data without stealing or copying/pasting... then I just focus on my own sim and worldbuilding.

makes a note of that for later use

@GinaC @Lt. Pholin Duyzer [SB118] we have that on our wiki

Nice!

It's good that I know that now.

I am interwikied between Memory Alpha, the main BF wiki and one of our sim wikis, I call MBH.

Helps me develop my wiki pages to be more succinct.

Has anyone mentioned dokuwiki yet?

It is really great wiki site software!

Honestly, I'm wondering if this wouldn't be a good way to borrow from another group (with permission obviously) to help connect content to create a more cohesive whole world for example for Trek writers.

I really need to find someone to oversee the TNU wiki

Docuwiki isn't too bad. Just a bit small for my taste.

I like the idea of a "wiki mod"

We don't have one on SARP, tbh, but might need to look

How is it small?

Dokuwiki @[22] greenfelt22

Small was probably a really bad term.

Mmm

Different one then is ok

I feel that MediaWiki is more expansive and versitile

What features do you like the most from MediaWiki?

@GinaC Thats the reason I am interwikied with the ones I am with.

I mean why do I need an article on my wiki about a tricorder, when I can interwiki to it on Memory Alpha.

TNU just uses wikia

Wikia is a bit too commercial for my taste.

Same again, why do I need a page with a specific event on, when I can interwiki to MBH.

DOes Wikia do anything better than the others?

dokuwiki is awesome

I really don't mind paying for a better wiki but I can't find one

I agree @Lt. Pholin Duyzer [SB118] . And the layout and formatting is just awkward

or one that is worth the price

I dislike Wikia. I know Mem's Alpha and Beta use it.

I've become a pro with that system ^^

But they are well established.

And their rebrand annoyed me.

I love that our wiki looks and acts like wikipedia, which is the wiki.

I mean the concept behind Wikia is its a modified mediawiki

@Lt. Pholin Duyzer [SB118] Thats why I use MediaWiki.

and they handle the server and tech stuff

generally I try to help teach newer members how to use it because it's a bit confusing at first

so of course being what they are a for profit company

the will put ads

i mean they do have to pay thier server bills

and to be honest I enjoy doing the work on doku

and their technical support and wiki deisgn staff

For me, @Ametheliana, part of my preference is just because I'm more familiar with it. It's also very similar to wikia, which allows for the interwiki. I'm not too experienced with Docuwiki, but I do dabble in coding, and I find it easier to work with MediaWiki in that regard. (edited)

Same for me.

I get that, habit is a heck of a thing!

dokuwiki uses coding as well

I can attest to greens coding. The templates and stuff he has come up with are phenomenal.

Whats the difference between Media and Doku?

it sucks though witht he TNU wiki cause I am the only one who knows what I am doing

I've never used media so I can't say for sure

thats another eason I cant use an in house wiki sotware

but doku is a pretty detailed system

maintaining, updating managing

...

I am a tech team of one

DokuWiki is nice, and I have used it. From my limited impression, and please don't think I'm a hater because I'm not, it's easier to use than MediaWiki, looks like it'd be easier to deploy and such. But I haven't used it enough to know how well it scales or how robust it can be.

It's just a platform, no problem having an opinion :]

I dont have an IO office like BF, nor do any of the tnu writing council leadership

have any technical knowledge

MediaWiki just happens to be what I used first and where I cut my teeth.

What about... Nova?

so thats another eason I use wikia

We need another room for Nova... lol

HAHA!

Okay!

Nova?

Noa

We're supposed to shut up in here in 20 minutes.

Nova!

does certain thigns very well

others

...

not so much

Nova was a interesting system to get used to.

was?

@Josh [TNU] is it okay to use #tech-dev for a conversation about nova?

I'm a bit more used to it now

Because if it is, I'm going to move this discussion there.

thats for like story technology

let me make a serbservices room

ok

nice

Everyone, hold off on your thoughts for a moment. Get ready to move...

packs his bags

quickly puts her stuff in Pholin's bags

picks up his notes and drink

waits for @Josh [TNU]'s okay

I feel like a nova... of questions.

puts his notes also into Pholin's bags

Does that make sense? I am hoping that joke landed.

carries bags

Oh gosh it didn't land at all!

We're moving to #web-dev

cleans room for next overflow

So Over flow of my panel!

Abstraction works better with soft magic, right?

Oh now we are getting into magic!

Wonderful

It's all very interesting to think about writing in those dimensions.

Why do you think Abstraction works better with Soft Magic?

Well the idea in my head is crafting enchanted items in Dresden files. The protagonist mentions talking about creating said items but never discusses how they were actually created. He just mentions stuff like "It took me three weeks and a pound of X with a sprinkle of Y" (edited)

On text or on screen it never happens

Abstraction can be used in that sense more to ease the weight of having to explain everything to the reader, but it's really important to make sure that if you use a magic system, in your mind its concrete. How it works to you

And this is where Deeper, not Wider comes into effect

Go deep into one aspect of your magic system, that way, people trust you on your word later on. If other people are supposed to use your magic, in a roleplay, I would strongly advise against any heavy amount of abstraction in the OOC information regarding it

How about when first showing magic to the readers or audience you use abstraction, but as the story develops and a certain character's knowledge of said magic grows the writing turn more concrete? (edited)

If you're introducing a magic system, and you have a plan for how you are going to drip feed the information to them, that works too. There is a reasonably one sided debate among authors as far as I know regarding if Magic Systems should have rules or stay in a level of abstractions, but we are getting off topic. What spell are you casting? What does it look like? What does it sound like? What do it do? What does your character do while casting? Is it like Harry Potter where energy just shoots fro the tip of your want or palm of your hand, or is it like Dr Strange, where glyphs and runes appear around your hands as you're casting?

Strenghtening spell. My body begins to show lines of light around the body. It sounds like metal being compressed. It Strenghtens the body. My character simply focused on doing it like flipping a natural switch, but that is because I trained with this particular spell insensantly

Does that work? (edited)

That could very well work, but that was written as if you couldn't decide if it was a description or a post

Can't it be both? (edited)

Don't cross the streams!

It can, it just leaves a strange detatched feeling to what you're writing Write it as a post. Be as concrete as you think you can, without boring your readers with details

Do you want me to write it again,Teacher? (edited)

I did just say write it again. Practice does make perfect and if anyone can get better from this panel I would consider it a resounding success

Strenghtening spell. As the energy outpurs from my core, silver lines of light begin covering my body in simple patterns. A soft screech like metal being compressed echoes. My body was now tougher, faster and stronger. Normally someone trying for the first time this spell, would have to meditate or murmur some incantation. Me, however? This was my bread and butter and as such there was a switch in my brain that allowed me to do this within a moment. Guess the training paid off. (edited)

Very nice, though one point I would make is try to work in 3rd person omniscient, because when you're writing, you're writing with other peoples perspectives, and first person often acts like a barrier. Describe the scene, as if you were describing it to everyone elses character. Wolf626 took a breath, lowering his stance. The crackle of electricity filling the air as he dumped energy from his core into the spell. As he did, silver lines traced along his body, following the grooves of his muscles. They flexed, the faint sound of metal on metal screeching could be heard as his muscles started to shrink down, expanding again, only to shrink down further. He now looked as if he were craved from metal. Slowly he released the breath, standing back up again. "I guess the training finally paid off." A lot of that was telling people what made him casting the spell in that way special, when in reality you should be coaxing the other players to dig into it. Of course, a lot of context is missing from this individual post, but giving people an in to interact and ask questions, will really get people attacked to characters, because in roleplay that's what forms attatchments. Interaction. You need to get the player interested in your character, through their character, and you do that by not only writing and describing things from "Their" perspective, but also hooking them with small amounts of information, and reeling them in using more and more information as you interact with them.

Though I'm not gonna take up the over flow for a one on one lesson We can talk elsewhere! We are also SO off topic XD (edited)

Sure

Also you have "craved from metal". I think you mean carved, but now I can't stopping thinking about a mage who gets more powerful the more metal music he hears! XD

XD Yeah, I was trying to hurry

Anyway, I'mma end this, feel free to DM me

----- NEXT PANEL OVERFLOW -----

FAREWELL

starts locking doors