SciWorld / FallFest

MajTom 17-May-19 08:44 AM

In this room amazing will happen.

enterDanement 17-May-19 05:24 PM

indeed

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 12:17 PM

opens this area

hellsangel 18-May-19 01:19 PM

barrel rolls in

Lt. Pholin Duyzer [SB118] 18-May-19 01:30 PM

rolls in

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:31 PM

Greetings to everyone for the first event of this special 20th anniversary SciWorld Online Convention! Today, we're here with Major Tom, the Editor-in-Chief and Chief Correspondent of Outpost 42 News over @ https://outpost42news.com/. Earlier this year, Outpost 42 News was presented with the prestigious Captain's Award from Sci-fi Avatars (http://scifiavatars.com/) Tom, along with Lieutenant Dan, was also awarded with OngoingWorlds' Community Honor a short time later (http://www.ongoingworlds.com/). However, Tom is no stranger to controversy, as many of you are aware. Now, I know that everyone is excited to hear what Tom has to say, but I'd like to ask the audience to please try to keep it down. If all goes well, we might have some time for guest questions at the end of the session. With that, Ground Control to Major Tom!

MajTom 18-May-19 01:32 PM

This is Major Tom to Ground Control.... And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:32 PM

Try the protein pills!

MajTom 18-May-19 01:32 PM

That's better, thanks Akoomi

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:32 PM

That's.. Akumi

MajTom 18-May-19 01:33 PM

Akooomi, of course!

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:33 PM

No... Akumi.

MajTom 18-May-19 01:33 PM

Akoomi, Akooomi, okay, Akumi.

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:33 PM

Tome, I'm going to jump right into it-

MajTom 18-May-19 01:34 PM

Tom

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:34 PM

Huh?

MajTom 18-May-19 01:34 PM

Tom, not Thom

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:34 PM

Of course, Thom! I- mean Tom!! Like I said I'm going to jump right into it: It has been alleged that you push fake news. What do you say to that? (edited)

MajTom 18-May-19 01:35 PM

I can assure you that that accusation is 100% false. I have never published fake news in my life, and certainly not on Outpost 42 News. We're the #1 most trusted fair & balanced name in news!

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:36 PM

You reported in February of this year about a failed assassination attempt on Bravo Fleet's President's during the Project Khitomer convention hosted by Bravo Fleet, Obsidian Fleet, and Pegasus Fleet. However, at least one person who attended Khitomer claims this event never happened and that your article is false. Furthermore, there was never any confirmation from any other reliable news sources. Much less, I can't confirm that Bravo Fleet even has a President. https://outpost42news.com/2019/02/23/bravo-fleet-president-survives-assassination-attempt-at-khitomer/

MajTom 18-May-19 01:36 PM

Details, details. I stand by all of my reporters at Outpost 42 News, especially since I'm the only one.

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:36 PM

Another example: In your piece last year about Bravo Fleet's near split, you quoted an Admiral from another fleet. While the underling account about Bravo Fleet's internal turmoil isn't in dispute, the outside Admiral denies that he never made the quoted statement. Where did you get this information? Who is your source? https://outpost42news.com/2018/07/04/bravo-fleet-admirals-end-argument-without-fleet-split/

MajTom 18-May-19 01:37 PM

I'm sorry, but as a journalist of integrity, I can't reveal my sources

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:37 PM

Okay then. Tom, you've also been accused of over reporting on Mike Bremer at the expense of the rest of the simming community.

MajTom 18-May-19 01:38 PM

Hey, I resemble that remark!

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:38 PM

By my count, Bremer has been featured or appeared in 11 of your 29 articles do date. How do you respond to that? https://outpost42news.com/category/people/mike-k-bremer/

Zech ♿ 18-May-19 01:38 PM

What exactly is this panel on?

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:38 PM

It is an interview.

MajTom 18-May-19 01:39 PM

All I can say is that Mike Bremer makes news. If anyone has any leads or news tips, they can send them to me in full confidentiality at majortom42news@gmail.com. As I said earlier I never reveal my sources and I'm always willing to report on what most matters to the online role play and simming community.

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:39 PM

Fair enough, I suppose. On three occasions, you've tried to report on Chas Hammer's true identity, but each time you came up with someone different. How can anyone trust your reporting after failing three times? https://outpost42news.com/category/people/chas-hammer/

MajTom 18-May-19 01:40 PM

I don't know what you're talking about.

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:40 PM

Here, three investigations on the same thing all have different conclusions: https://outpost42news.com/category/people/chas-hammer/

Uso 18-May-19 01:40 PM

Chas Hammer is clearly three people posing as one person.

1

Zech ♿ 18-May-19 01:41 PM

Three people? BUT THATS IMPOSSSIBLE

1

wait wrong frnachise

MajTom 18-May-19 01:41 PM

I don't understand.

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:41 PM

It's right here! points at the screen https://outpost42news.com/2018/07/28/chas-hammers-true-identity-revealed/ and here https://outpost42news.com/2019/01/02/chas-hammers-true-identity-revealed-2/ and here https://outpost42news.com/2019/04/02/chas-hammers-true-identity-revealed-3/!

MajTom 18-May-19 01:42 PM

I still don't get it

Zech ♿ 18-May-19 01:42 PM

You reported on a Article 3 times

3 different outcomes

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:42 PM

I...don't appreciate your stonewalling, but anyways. Back to Bravo Fleet for the moment, you've reported some pretty unflattering things about them. In particular, your very first article was about a trial with the Bravo Fleet Judge Advocate General (JAG). Do you ever fear any reprisal from the Bravo Fleet JAG or anyone else for your sometimes negative reporting? https://outpost42news.com/2018/04/01/bravo-fleet-jag-finds-defendant-not-guilty/

MajTom 18-May-19 01:42 PM

I just do my job and try not to worry about things like that. I'm in full compliance with the law at all times.

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:43 PM

Switching gears, you recently reported on Theta Fleet's near disaster with Tribbles (https://outpost42news.com/2019/03/15/theta-fleet-uses-tried-and-true-method-to-rid-themselves-of-tribble-overpopulation/) and reversals on dubious decisions from Shadow Fleet and 5th Fleet about

(https://outpost42news.com/2019/05/01/shadow-fleet-5th-fleet-discover-that-not-everything-is-better-with-bacon/). How are they doing now?

Zech ♿ 18-May-19 01:43 PM

To be fair giving details such as names out might infringe on GDPR

MajTom 18-May-19 01:43 PM

I'm happy to report that all three fleets, Theta, Shadow, and 5th, have recovered nicely and they're doing great now. They're excellent places to sim.

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:44 PM

Do you know if they've recovered the missing post at Fantasy Fans Freedom that revealed all the secrets of the universe? https://outpost42news.com/2018/12/26/fantasy-rpg-moderator-deletes-post-revealing-secrets-of-the-universe-because-its-off-topic/

MajTom 18-May-19 01:44 PM

Unfortunately, they have not. But if they do, you'll hear about it first at Outpost 42 News.

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:44 PM

I'm sure we will. Tom, for the last part of the interview, I'm going to ask you a quick line of questions.

First, What is your full name?

MajTom 18-May-19 01:45 PM

Major Tom of Outpost 42 News!

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:45 PM

What is your quest?

MajTom 18-May-19 01:45 PM

The report the news!

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:46 PM

What is your favorite color?

MajTom 18-May-19 01:46 PM

#DDA0DD!

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:46 PM

Okay, you may pass, but I do have three more questions before we open it up the audience.

MajTom 18-May-19 01:46 PM

Go on then!

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:46 PM

What is your favorite number?

MajTom 18-May-19 01:48 PM

42

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:48 PM

Boxers or briefs?

MajTom 18-May-19 01:48 PM

I go commando

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:49 PM

Have you ever visited Role Play Wiki at https://roleplay.fandom.com/ ?

MajTom 18-May-19 01:50 PM

What do you mean, as a user or as an editor?

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:50 PM

I...well...I don't know.... screams

MajTom 18-May-19 01:50 PM

Akumi????

...Akoomi?

Zech ♿ 18-May-19 01:51 PM

@𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 the 118 section of that is severely out of date

MajTom 18-May-19 01:51 PM

Are you there, Akooomi?

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 01:51 PM

Ouch, that hurt, especially since no one ever edits there. We'll now take your questions for Major Tom. Who wants to go first?

Lt. Pholin Duyzer [SB118] 18-May-19 01:52 PM

Me! (edited)

What do you think of your competing news source, which has arguably received less criticism: fednewsservice.com? (edited)

1

MajTom 18-May-19 01:54 PM

I don't speak ill of my competitors. We all seek to report the truth. But Outpost 42 news is still the #1 most fair and balanced name. (edited)

Lt. Pholin Duyzer [SB118] 18-May-19 01:55 PM

Just a different truth it would seem sometimes.

1

MajTom 18-May-19 01:56 PM

Who's next????

Zech ♿ 18-May-19 01:57 PM

You seem to message me whenever you post a new article. Why? And do you do this for everyone. This would take some time no?

1

MajTom 18-May-19 01:58 PM

Yes, we have a secret insiders mailing list. But yours is not so secret anymore.

Ferrycel 18-May-19 01:59 PM

Now tell me, Major Tom. What is your opinion the Foi--- erm, females?

1

Zech ♿ 18-May-19 01:59 PM

I never signed up for a mailing list

MajTom 18-May-19 01:59 PM

I have to say, I like them a lot.

Zech ♿ 18-May-19 01:59 PM

And why does it send it through discord

Deleted User 18-May-19 02:00 PM

foidz

MajTom 18-May-19 02:00 PM

So a Klingon, a Romulan, and a Kardashian walk into a bar....

Deleted User 18-May-19 02:01 PM

KARDashian

MajTom 18-May-19 02:01 PM

Sorry, I forgot the rest.

Discord, email, what's the difference?

Zech ♿ 18-May-19 02:03 PM

I never signed up to get the articles

MajTom 18-May-19 02:04 PM

Well, I uh um uh can't comment on that.

Zech ♿ 18-May-19 02:04 PM

Why? You send them?

1

2

MajTom 18-May-19 02:05 PM

That's classified.

TheKorraFanatic 18-May-19 02:06 PM

Tell me, what is your view on Fandom (formerly Wikia)?

1

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 02:06 PM

Akumi got called away, sorry for inactivity! ; - ;

MajTom 18-May-19 02:06 PM

It's fabulous

TheKorraFanatic 18-May-19 02:07 PM

Tell me, what is your view on @𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲?

1

MajTom 18-May-19 02:07 PM

Tough interviewer, but fair.

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 02:07 PM

Hmph.

Zech ♿ 18-May-19 02:08 PM

And your thoughts on Star Trek Discovery

1

MajTom 18-May-19 02:09 PM

Is that the one with Captain Janeway?

Zech ♿ 18-May-19 02:09 PM

Stop trolling and answer the question

MajTom 18-May-19 02:10 PM

Yes, I'm a big fan of Jake Sisko.

Chas 18-May-19 02:12 PM

Do you not want to admit that Discovery has entered into heresy and corrupted the vision of Gene Roddenberry, and that The Orville is the true successor to that vision, all praise be unto Seth MacFarlane?

1

MajTom 18-May-19 02:12 PM

I honestly thought they were the same show.

1

Chas 18-May-19 02:14 PM

DS9/Voy/Discov... humm... where does Enterprise fit in the mashup?

1

MajTom 18-May-19 02:16 PM

I think I saw the Enterprise D in DSN once or twice.

Chas 18-May-19 02:17 PM

ahh yes, I saw it on the home shopping network too

no further questions your honor

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 02:19 PM

Well Thom, besides the news, what are your interests?

MajTom 18-May-19 02:19 PM

What? Well, I don't know! Ahhhhhhhhh!!!!!

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 02:20 PM

His interests are reporting the news and reporting the news

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 02:20 PM

Haha. Well with that, that'll be the end of our panel. Thank you to everyone that attended!

Go check out the amazing Charles Star's panel :)

TheKorraFanatic 18-May-19 02:21 PM

Good job on the panel, guys!

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 02:21 PM

Thanks!!

2

And uh,

Tom?

Ground Control to Major Tom!

Your circuit's dead, there's something wrong...

Can you hear me, Major Tom? Major Tom, can you hear me?

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 02:24 PM

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 02:29 PM

HEllo everyone.

My clock says two minutes before I start

see you in two shakes

Hi Everyone. I run Deep Space Five in Theta Fleet, and I'm going to be talking about taking over existing sims, as opposed to starting from scratch. DS5 has been running continuously for more than ten years, first on yahoo groups, then SMS, then Nova. I only took over later 2017

1

My first question is what sort of situation is everyone here in? Has anyone here recently taken on a sim, or thinking about it?

1

Arieg 18-May-19 02:35 PM

Sim = RP?

1

Kate 18-May-19 02:35 PM

Not took over a sim myself, but my first sim was taken over by someone else. Still running now 5 years later.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 02:36 PM

Yes, sorry, sim = RP

of any genre

Chistery 18-May-19 02:37 PM

I'm covering currently covering for a CO (maternity leave), and I did just start a sim.

RP

MajTom 18-May-19 02:38 PM

I like rp

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 02:38 PM

Kate, did you help with the transition, or were you stuck and someone had to jump in?

Kate 18-May-19 02:38 PM

I helped take over. I stepped down due to my pregnancy

1

Still stayed involved with the sim, just not as its CO (edited)

1

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 02:40 PM

That was obviously a succesful handover if it is still running. What do you think made it work?

Kate 18-May-19 02:40 PM

Someone who really has the passion to continue the adventure of a sim.

And has the support of the excisting crew.

DeathRay5k 18-May-19 02:42 PM

I've been on a sim that got taken over a few weeks later. As a new player, it felt like the new CO was struggling to get engagement from some players and break through their little cliques

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 02:42 PM

So your new CO was completely new to the sim?

1

DeathRay5k 18-May-19 02:43 PM

He joined around the time I did. Experienced player but relatively new to that sim

1

MajTom 18-May-19 02:44 PM

@DeathRay5k, what happened?

Kate 18-May-19 02:44 PM

That is a big difference. If the new CO is part of the team or new to the sim.

1

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 02:45 PM

I agree. Its a lot harder to take over a sim that you don't or barely know. possibly even harder than starting from scratch

1

When I took over DS5, One of the things I had to check was how much support I would have from the others. I didn't see much point if people didn't want me to do it. Thankfully all the players had a lot invested and didn't want to see the sim die.

DeathRay5k 18-May-19 02:47 PM

Cliques are tricky

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 02:47 PM

And inevitable

you get a knot or two or three writers that all bounce well off each other, but don't mix well, then you get a sim within a sim. Some of it is natural as people write at different paces, but that makes it hard for others to get involved

John Yicks 18-May-19 02:48 PM

Cliques are formed from a common underlying goal or emotion. Humans group together for protection. Learn what they are protecting themselves from and you could settle the clique.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 02:49 PM

Which in a lot of sim cases i think is boredom. People like me with lots of time to devote to simming want ot write write write.

But with others I think there is an element of not wanting any challenges to their character concept, and to protect that they limit themselves to a few other players

in either the case the solution is the same

write with them as much as you can,

and bring in others outside the clique to keep the energy moving around everyone

John Yicks 18-May-19 02:52 PM

I don't think Cliques are caused by boredom so to speak, at least the most common ones. They are usually formed through an underlying conflict, be it big or small. At least, cliques that cause problems. It's okay to have your prefered group of friends inside a community, but if one of those groups are acting against the community in some way, there is something more than boredom there.

Nichy 18-May-19 02:53 PM

Cliques aren't formed through boredom. It's common interest attraction

John Yicks 18-May-19 02:54 PM

Best way to settle it is to discover what that underlying concern of theirs is, and assuage their fears so that they no longer feel like they need to protect themslves. Again, if they have a negative impact on the website.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 02:54 PM

I'd say with play by post that interest is in doing the RP, and wanting to write as much as possible and so avoid boredom

Nichy 18-May-19 02:55 PM

That's a horrible abstract to be fair @Beautiful Night.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 02:55 PM

On a related note. One of the issues I had to grapple with on DS5 was what to do with the non engaging players

John Yicks 18-May-19 02:55 PM

Or maybe they like how these other players write? Maybe they are telling a story they enjoy? They connect with? Maybe they feel comfortable with these players, and these other players make them feel safer?

Nichy 18-May-19 02:55 PM

What he said

John Yicks 18-May-19 02:56 PM

I can promise you any clique being formed, the cause can be boiled down to the feeling of safety and comfort.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 02:56 PM

@Nichy possibly, but its the best I could come up with. On all the sims I've been on, the keen players tend to group together and write so fast anyone else can't keep up, so don't get invited in

and then a lot of newbies, including myself, just can't get traction, and it tends to be the same four people driving everything along

which can be off putting to others,

I will admit, I'm also one of the guilty ones in some places

John Yicks 18-May-19 02:58 PM

So how do you think that can be settled? I will not deny sometimes a community can become so clique oriented that it's impossible for new players to join into that community as a whole without bringing lots of friends. What would the solution to the problem be?

Funny, I'm doing a panel that talks about how to solve problems like these later on in the convention, so I have interest in this.

Nichy 18-May-19 02:59 PM

So to bring this somewhat back into topic since this is wandering towards the simcest discussion at Khitomer, how do you set out your stall in an existing community as the new CO)

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:00 PM

How do you set out your stall? Could you explain that a little more Baba?

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 03:00 PM

I think that depends on if you come from that community or not.

Nichy 18-May-19 03:00 PM

Yeah, as in lay your ground rules out, your expectations?

Your plans?

Etc.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 03:01 PM

I think you have to be honest with people. One thing I did from the first was say I was going to enforce the posting rules

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:01 PM

I'll let Night answer, but I would love the chance to put my thought into this if Night doesn't mind after her.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 03:01 PM

It was tricky because we had some slow players

but others had been brought into the sim by the previous CO on sliglyt different rules

Nichy 18-May-19 03:02 PM

(I'm not asking for me btw, just want to avoid this straying too far off the subject)

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 03:02 PM

due to how they accessed the web

I ended up making a general statement about how I wanted things to be going forward, and then had private conversations with people who I thought might need some reassurance

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:03 PM

Would you mind if I offered a suggestion Beautiful?

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 03:03 PM

go for it

I'm still learning

AS well as John, how have others handled trying to change things?

Kate? did you r new CO change much?

Kate 18-May-19 03:06 PM

First one didn't but the one who took over after that did. And I think that was a good actions.

Another sims where I witnesses a take over we only changed the current mission and moved a few years ahead to catch up with the fleet.

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:08 PM

Thank you. So, in the change of leadership there will always be a level of fear. People may not express it, they may not even know it's there but it'll happen because people don't like change. Change worries them. You had a really good point with what you said Beautiful. Be honest. Though, first it would be good to start with a thing called an Accusation Audit. I talk about it in my panel, but I'll breifly go over it here. Before you address the community, sit down and think of any concerns they have about you. Think about them, and point them out. "I know some of you might think X" and then don't deny it. Then lay out your plans. If you think your plans might be too much to some people, if you think some people may not like some of your plans, again, say it yourself. "I'm going to seem harsh, but I'm going to start enforcing rules to bring activity back." Then listen to your players. If anyone seems to be fighting the change, or shows concern about the change approach them and get to the root of their fears. find what their needs are, and figure out a way to fulfill them.

Kate 18-May-19 03:08 PM

I think changing things is only needed when something is wrong. For example if there is barely no activity, you need to change things to improve that.

Nichy 18-May-19 03:08 PM

I personally like to set fire to the place, upset everyone and rebuild it in my image

J/k

Only done that twice

[OF] B 18-May-19 03:08 PM

he isn't

Kate 18-May-19 03:08 PM

Aren't you still fixing the last one you set on fire.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 03:08 PM

@Nichy did it work as well as hoped?

Nichy 18-May-19 03:09 PM

@Kate yes, yes I am

[OF] B 18-May-19 03:09 PM

As someone who took over a sim from two previous CO's disappearing in very quick succession. You get back to basics with your crew, find out why they joined and what they hope for there characters, make sure they understand that things will be changing but you hopefully want to work with them. Get them on side and show that you are wanting them there.

Draxx - CO Andromeda 18-May-19 03:09 PM

@John Yicks that needs to be an ongoing process not just when someone takes over.

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:09 PM

Of course

Again, that was using small bits of my panel later in the day. I don't want to spoil the whole thing for you lovely people. I was just trying to keep things in focus to the topic. (edited)

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 03:11 PM

I think the hardest thing for me taking over was trying to enforce the basic activity rules with people who had been there a very long time.

1

longer than me

I wasn't the longest running player at the time, and I still feel a bit that I don't have the heart to be as strict with them as I am with new players. WHich is really not fair.

Did anyone else have a problem with.. call it perceived seniority.

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:13 PM

Perceived seniority can also be described as "You don't have my respect yet"

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 03:14 PM

I don't know if i'd call it that. Neither of them are trouble makers

It just felt like booting them would be ripping the heart out of the sim

Kate 18-May-19 03:15 PM

If they had respect for you, they would want to work with you to improve the sim.

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:15 PM

Just because they aren't trouble makers doesn't mean you don't need to earn their respect. They respected their last leader, who knows how long they followed them. You can't just take that position and expect the respect to carry over.

2

Kate 18-May-19 03:15 PM

or leave

[OF] B 18-May-19 03:16 PM

^ this

Draxx - CO Andromeda 18-May-19 03:16 PM

Also keeping respect is an ongoing process

1

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:17 PM

Being a leader is an ongoing process. Being a community leader is an ongoing process. It's never "What should my players do for me" it's "What can I do for my players" and "How can I earn and keep their respect"

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 03:17 PM

But doesn't that go both ways?

Draxx - CO Andromeda 18-May-19 03:18 PM

Yes if the communication is in place

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:18 PM

You respect them, they will respect you. The purest form of respect flows down, not up.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 03:18 PM

I agree, but Haven't found that to be the case in practise.

the first bit at any rate

Kate 18-May-19 03:20 PM

Have you asked yourself litterly what you can do for those players. What they need from you

[OF] B 18-May-19 03:20 PM

I think we can all agree that taking over a sim is hard work. Takes a special kind of CO/GM to take that on

1

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:20 PM

Nothing wrong with that. That just means you haven't discovered their issue. You haven't discovered their concern and that means you have a little work you need to do. That's okay. Communicate. Have a conversation and listen to them. See the world from their view, and then explain "The World as the Player sees it" and get a "That's Right" out of them. Once you get that, you can move forward. They will see you understand them, you are willing to listen to them. And then they will work with you.

3

Draxx - CO Andromeda 18-May-19 03:21 PM

Here here

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 03:22 PM

However, some players are utterly unprepared to listen

Moving on, as there's only ten minutes left. If there was one piece of advice you'd give someone taking over a sim, what would it be. I think for me it would be, "You are going to make mistakes. Consider it inevitable, and learn from them. But don't throw yourself on your bat'leth"

1

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:23 PM

Taking the place of the Leader means you have more work to do than anyone else. You don't take that position for the glory or the recognition it comes with. You take that position to do what's right by your players. The Glory and Recognition will come once you do that.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 03:24 PM

I think handling problem palyers could be a panel all by itself

prblem players even

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:24 PM

Fun, that's my panel

1

Mecha meme 18-May-19 03:25 PM

Handling that guy

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:25 PM

That is literally my panel. How to get everyone out alive, even the bad guy. The bad Guy is the problem player.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 03:26 PM

So cloising thoughts then.

Taking over a sim is very rewarding, and I encourage people to do it as it helps people keep characters they love. But its harder work to create and recreate relationships and expectations.

1

MajTom 18-May-19 03:29 PM

Great job @Beautiful Night ! Fabulous panel!

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 03:29 PM

Communication is everything

1

Draxx - CO Andromeda 18-May-19 03:29 PM

Here here

MajTom 18-May-19 03:29 PM

Much better than that first one!

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:30 PM

Very good job Beautiful Nights.

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 03:30 PM

Alright, thank you Beautiful Night! Onto the next panel.

1

Gallant 18-May-19 03:30 PM

>_>-b

Good morning from Hawaii! I’m Mike, of Shattered Universe Media Group. I am the business’s local agent, along with its accountant and personnel manager. Additionally, I also write content for the website, and tend to make stylistic contributions every once in a while. I write for the Song of Asteria webcomic (su-comic.com). Check it out when can.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 03:30 PM

Thanks everyone

Gallant 18-May-19 03:31 PM

So, as far as my panel goes; In our website, we sometimes find a distinction exists between “hard sci-fi” and “soft” sci-fi, or what I like to call “science fantasy”. Over time, the two have become distinct in my mind, enough to talk about some of the key differences between them. I’ve found that it’s not just a stylistic preference, but often dictates what types of stories can be told in the setting that either mentality tends to create. So this panel will also, just a bit, be about worldbuilding, and about the importance of unknowns (fantastic elements) in roleplaying stories.

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I’ve got a couple of cups of coffee in me now, but feel free to interject questions, or thoughts, at any time, and I’ll try to answer them. I don’t have a schedule, I figured I’d let this talk develop organically.

Science Fantasy is basically - "technology sufficiently advanced looks like magic".

Whereas hard science fiction tends to involve numbers, ranges, detail work, and hard boundaries on technology - technology can only do certain very specific things.

It's been an important consideration while building our wiki and setting, because some people want the one, and some people want the other, so on broad occasion the streams cross. There's a few people in here who know what I'm talking about first hand. ;p

Mecha meme 18-May-19 03:35 PM

One destinction I tend to make is that science fantasy is a bit more loosey goosey with physics and stuff

1

Gallant 18-May-19 03:35 PM

Yes, that's a primary characteristic. I'd actually argue that Star Trek is Science Fantasy, by my definition - many of the episodes tend to involve elements of technology that are unexplained.

Things like teleportation devices (dimension door anyone?), magical pills that make women beautiful (charisma +5)...

So it's easy to think for me, in terms of fantasy equivalents to a certain extent.

(So I'm biased as to which of the two I enjoy)

Mecha meme 18-May-19 03:36 PM

Trek is, as much as a lot of people try to say it isn't, a science fantasy show

Gallant 18-May-19 03:36 PM

Indeed.

So that type of story - since Star Trek is what most people here seem to be familiar with, I'll talk in that language for a while -

Star Trek TOS was one of the first shows to really take on some of the social norms of its time. It had the first interracial kiss, a wildly diverse crew, and went and interacted with some pretty awesome and weird cultures and situations. It was definitely an adventure show, with a bit more character focus.

And it was in showing the way that people interacted that the show got interesting.

PERSONALLY I liked Scotty. But I digress a bit. <_<;

Fantasy stories, by trope, tend to focus on single or multiple characters' struggles - the setting is there to provide a certain sort of background, a set of problems, and so on, to challenge the protagonists.

Wheresa I find that a lot of hard science fiction is there to inspire a bit of wonder and awe at new concepts.

So I've blathered enough - how do you guys use hard and soft science fantasy in your roleplay? What do you think their places are?

Err... Hard Sci Fi/Science Fantasy.

Sorry. Morning. Coffee.

Chistery 18-May-19 03:42 PM

olo

lol

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:42 PM

Even in hard science, do you think it is okay to deviate from reality even if it means possibly breaking rules? If it would benefit the story. (edited)

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Gallant 18-May-19 03:43 PM

I tend to be of the opinion that it gets interesting at that point.

In a hard sci fi story where the rules of the world are absolute, a deviation from those rules - an anomoly - means that there's another rule that went previously undiscovered.

Mecha meme 18-May-19 03:43 PM

I think that in hard scifi deviation is ok so long as the universe follows its own rules consistantly

And any deviation is sufficiently explained

Gallant 18-May-19 03:43 PM

I think that rightly done, it can be a good point to write on.

Mhm.

But then it's a player discovery!

The key there is that the discovery itself is a primary mover of the story. Like, we KNOW that the HMS Eucalyptus can only go 14 lightyears per minute, but that dread ship showed up in the Alora system. How did it get there? Do the Space British have some new technology?! ... and so on.

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:46 PM

When setting up a setting with rules. Is it okay to skimp out on some of the finer details of the rules for a vast majority of the rules, if you dive into details for simply the very core aspect of the story. Say, you delve very deeply into the rules of a setting where everyone has the ability to control Ice, and give your readers or players all the information, rules, and loop holes for that. Then you introduce a character who can use fire magic, but don't explain too much about it.

Gallant 18-May-19 03:46 PM

I think someone who did that really well in his novels was Brandon Sanderson, with his Mistborn series.

In the first book, you only know of 9 metals - but then they discover electrum. It turns out it was a secret that the Lord Ruler hoarded away from the general populace.

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:47 PM

You're well read it seems.

Gallant 18-May-19 03:47 PM

^^; I read constantly.

Also, part of my understanding actually comes from Brandon Sanderson's talks on the subject.

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:48 PM

Then you may notice the similarity in my example to how he explained it in his lectures

Gallant 18-May-19 03:48 PM

Yes. I had that answer almost pre-written lol

But yeah, I think he did it very well. Although that's technically a fantasy novel, it had a hard system of rules for its magic, which is more into the 'hard sci-fi' aspect, and the actual system itself had a serious impact on the story.

That story couldn't have been told without it, I think.

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:50 PM

Well, Hard Sci, to me is just a world where the rules align with our own. We use our rules, instead of making up new ones, but Hard Sci I don't think needs to abide by our rules. They just need to adhere strictly to a set of rules. Would you agree?

Strictly is used a little more loosely than appropriate. Exceptions to rules exist and so on. (edited)

Gallant 18-May-19 03:51 PM

Well, most of the science fiction settings I've seen which are already published on the internet exist in a place where our general rules apply, but where we're floating around with technology we don't have - such as artificial gravity. The Expanse did this pretty well, at least the books in the series did.

That is, things like gravity were notated - how it all worked, I mean.

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:51 PM

Anchor in reality will let you bend the rules without breaking the immersion.

Gallant 18-May-19 03:51 PM

Yes. And for some people that immersion is important.

So it felt like a more grounded story when I was reading it, something that could maybe be only a few years away, as opposed to something like Star Wars.

Obviously we don't have the Force on current earth.

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:52 PM

But people didn't care because the technology wasn't the focus of the story. The People were, and they were the grounds to reality. I think at least.

Gallant 18-May-19 03:53 PM

Yes. I like saying sometimes that Star Wars was based a bit on the Arthurian myth.

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:53 PM

Sword and the Stone?

Gallant 18-May-19 03:53 PM

Here's this guy, who used to farm dirt, who gets given a lightsaber - a sword of the legendary order of Jedi!

So while you had 'scientific' elements, and space ships, and so on, it was still very much a fantasy story.

I.E. - the tech was just fluff.

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:54 PM

So why do you think people roleplay in hard science settings?

Gallant 18-May-19 03:55 PM

I have the strong suspicions they enjoy playing games with numbers in them.

<_< Ehehehe I'm biased, though.

But perhaps if you wanted to be specific about it - things like D&D, where you have character sheets, hard limitations, and so on, force you as a player to be clever and engage your brain to overcome situations.

I find that most of the people who want hard sci fi want something quite similar.

There's a lot of fun to be had, bending the rules, if the rules are hard.

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:56 PM

So would you think that if you were to define players of soft sci and hard sci, the former is more interested in the how of the world, and less about the actual characters, and the latter be the opposite, even if only to a tiny amount?

Sorry, reverse that.

Gallant 18-May-19 03:57 PM

That's my general understanding, yes. Understanding what types of players you have can lead to knowing what type of story they'll enjoy.

We're a lot of science fantasy people in Shattered U., so it's been an ongoing discussion of how to involve and entertain our more hard-science-fiction members.

John Yicks 18-May-19 03:59 PM

Have you considered Employing Sanderson's teachings, and then asking the Hard Science folks what parts of the setting they would want to see set in stone?

Gallant 18-May-19 03:59 PM

To an extent, yes. For instance, I find that this crops up most often when people make specific technologies.

As a website we don't endorse things like damage ratings, but on the flip side of that, we do try to impose generalized rules - in the sense of a game of rock-papper-scissors.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:00 PM

It's difficult making everyone happy, isn't it?

Gallant 18-May-19 04:00 PM

It certainly is!

Stephen Hunter UK 18-May-19 04:01 PM

But sometimes you shouldn't try to.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:01 PM

Have you thought about discovering why these players desire these rules so badly? Perhaps there is an underlying concern that could be solved, which would in turn remove that desire? (edited)

Gallant 18-May-19 04:01 PM

So far we've tried to keep the rules generalized rather than specific. If one person makes a ship that can travel light speed, for example, the next person wants to make one that travels double that. We've found that causes a sort of...

Culture?

Stephen Hunter UK 18-May-19 04:01 PM

If you try to make everyone happy, you often make no-one happy.

Gallant 18-May-19 04:01 PM

Where people who don't play like that feel left out.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:02 PM

It sounds like everyone wants to one up the other.

Gallant 18-May-19 04:02 PM

Oh. Yes, we tend to inquire. However, as the vast bulk of our membership is on one end of the spectrum, we lean more strongly to that spectrum - part of recognizing our audience, to answer Stephen's observation.

But hard science fiction - or at least the idea of the universe having laws, checks, and balances - do show up in individual technologies, cultures, societies, and tend to vary plot to plot at the GM's discretion.

We tend to account for it on the micro, rather than the macro level.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:03 PM

So, I may seem like I am trying to shrink your community, but this really applies to any community. Have you ever thought about why people want a ship that can go twice as fast?

Also, feel free to get me back on track of the topic.

Gallant 18-May-19 04:04 PM

That's fine, I don't mind talking about that, too. Part of the talk is about the philosophy of each approach.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:04 PM

I appreciate your understanding.

Gallant 18-May-19 04:05 PM

My understanding comes from an observation that I made a few years ago about another website. I'll not name it, but I'll describe the situation of the community in brief as an "Arms race."

The focus of the technology was on making people's own creations cooler, or a little bit more powerful, than the other creations of other people, rather than on finding a way for those setting widgets to interact, in the case I observed.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:06 PM

And as a staff member it's hard to put a stop to that arms race, because that race creates conflict and tension, and that's naturally unhealthy for a community.Would that be impossible to agree too?

Gallant 18-May-19 04:06 PM

As far as the underlying cause, I thought it was something of a self-esteem thing.

These are people's dreams made real through writing - so of course, we are proud of them.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:08 PM

I like that you mention the Self-Esteem. In a community everyone wants to be recognized. Sometimes they do things like this because if they do that, they will be recognized. They will be important. They will have the Best Object and everyone will look to them and they will feel... Respect?

Gallant 18-May-19 04:08 PM

I'd call it Prestige. I'm fond of Rousseau.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:09 PM

Fair enough. I can respect that. So, do you think it is the nature of a player to feel prestige, or respect, which ever you would prefer?

Gallant 18-May-19 04:09 PM

That is to say, in a hunter-gatherer community, the best singer - everybody knows they're the best singer. However, there are other people better at other things, and the trick to a good community is to recognize the good in everyone and encourage it. This is easier said than done.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:09 PM

It certainly is

Kirby [SU] 18-May-19 04:09 PM

Thing is with an arms race of tech, as also a person who has both created stuff and been on arms race things, the issue tends to hit that if you make something super powerful that cannot be beat it tends to limit creativity a bit

Gallant 18-May-19 04:10 PM

So that sense can be cultivated by recognition and by creating appropriate methods of expression for those people.

The issue arises when everyone wants to be the best singer and they start stabbing each other over it.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:11 PM

There is an inbalance in the respect levels. It's interesting, in my panel I am going to play a game that touches on Fair.

Gallant 18-May-19 04:11 PM

For instance, we've got a guy who has an entire separate Wiki full of technology that's well written and precise and balanced and even very interesting - he's good at it. By contrast, I write one wiki article every two months, and I'm pleased to think it looks a lot like the vague setting references in Forgotten Realms.

So different things are important to different people.

;p

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:13 PM

They are but then you notice people start to latch to things, right? You notice one particular thing someone is good at, and multiple people are trying to take that throne.

Sorry, I find people very interesting. What they do and how they act and such. I know I probably seem like a know it all

Gallant 18-May-19 04:14 PM

I'm similar, which is why the distinction is of interest to me.

I don't want you to scare you away from talking to me, but Kim has a number of infographics in her panel right now that are similar to what we're talking about presently, though the topic is different.

Still, there are multiple systems for breaking the desires of players down, and those are some of them. As far as stories go however -

Or world building, more specifically,

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:16 PM

I will take a look at those. I'm enjoying your perspective.

Gallant 18-May-19 04:16 PM

Thank you. I do a lot of thinking on people as well.

We're getting close to end of time, so let's try to talk about that middle ground we introduced a page or so back.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:17 PM

Of course.

We can continue this in my panel. It's all about this.

Gallant 18-May-19 04:17 PM

That is to say, how do these two styles of worldbuilding come together, to please what we could say are the most people? Or the best story that could engage both sides to an extent?

Aha! Cheater!

Lol.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:20 PM

I know, shame on me

Though, that shows you how universal the problem is. When it comes to roleplay, people are the core of it, so any issue you have can inevitably be boiled down to people. As for your question, that is really hard to answer, because people naturally have different wants and desires on the surface. I can only think of going deeper, and trying to figure out the common denominator need for your player base, and there may be a few, that don't need changes to the rules of the setting to be fulfill, and try to fulfill them.

It's not an easy task, to be certain.

Gallant 18-May-19 04:21 PM

The methodology that we employ is to, as I said, address the problem on a micro level. The broad setting is vague, but can be hammered down into smaller parts with specific rules for peoples' stories and plots.

For instance, Kim has a race of Embers who are like walking magical batteries - but they can fizzle out. They cannot touch other people without burning them. They require special suits. And their abilities are specific. People playing Embers accept those hard limitations with which they interact with their stories.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:22 PM

So, the "plots" themselves are their own microcosm of rules and regulations that don't remain consistent from plot to plot?

Gallant 18-May-19 04:22 PM

The Tatiya Hini, in Kowloon, have a type of 'Oath' magic where they gain certain abilities from swearing oaths and completing them, or holding to them, and if they break the oaths they lose those abilities.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:22 PM

With a very small handful of rules that do actually over arch

Gallant 18-May-19 04:22 PM

As far as the major rules - there's a sort of conservation rule, there's a sympathy rule, and there's a sort of component rule.

So while the various systems of magic in our setting or technology in our setting are many-hued and varied, they are still bound by those overarching rules.

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 04:23 PM

Any panels going to need an overflow?

Gallant 18-May-19 04:23 PM

I.E. - there has to be a natural ability, there has to be an object of one's home world, and there has to be competency.

How those are accomplished are varied, but the rules still apply.

I think we're starting to wrap up.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:24 PM

Yes, I think we will be okay.

Gallant 18-May-19 04:24 PM

Mhm. But yes, that's correct in the way we've implemented it;

The plots are microcosms, set by the storyteller. The setting is broad, and less specific.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:25 PM

And do you think it has a positive effect on the OOC? Is it reducing conflict?

It sounds like if that system works, there would never be a need for an arms race.

Gallant 18-May-19 04:25 PM

Correct. And, in two years, we have only had two problem members.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:26 PM

I prefer hearing of websites that have 0 problem members. Though, again, that's more my panel topic.

Gallant 18-May-19 04:26 PM

And as for them, it turned out that they had problems in their mentalities or in their personal lives that were driving the conflict, rather than anything that we did as a community.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:26 PM

You might enjoy my panel then.

Gallant 18-May-19 04:27 PM

Perhaps. Still, I think that we have an excellent track record, and I'm quite proud of it.

1

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:27 PM

No crtainly that is an astounding number. I am sorry if I came off as if that wasn't an accomplishment.

Ryker 18-May-19 04:27 PM

yee

my track record for 100m is excellent too

iam proud of it

Gallant 18-May-19 04:28 PM

Ew. Running.

<_<

Ryker 18-May-19 04:28 PM

what

iam a athlete

ops

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:28 PM

Anyway, the hour is up. I hope I didn't bore you

Gallant 18-May-19 04:28 PM

I suppose I lift books.

>_>

<_<

Ryker 18-May-19 04:28 PM

na it was fun

Gallant 18-May-19 04:28 PM

HYAAAAH!

Ryker 18-May-19 04:28 PM

i just got it

here

Gallant 18-May-19 04:28 PM

throws books around.

Anyway, thank you for having me. It seems we're being shuffled along, so I do hope you enjoyed the discussion.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:29 PM

I did. I hope you did as well.

Gallant 18-May-19 04:29 PM

>_>-b Check out our website. It's pretty.

And we think deep thoughts.

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 04:30 PM

Thank you for your time, Gallant! Now onto the next panel.

Chistery 18-May-19 04:31 PM

Hello!

I think the next panel is me!

I had what I thought was a great panel idea.... and then, just now, found out so did the person before me. However, I am brave and true of heart and so must always win, so I have cobbled together the other topic I was considering!

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:32 PM

The difference between hard and soft settings?

Chistery 18-May-19 04:33 PM

no, the other channel

Gallant 18-May-19 04:33 PM

Kim is like that. Kim knows lots of things.

All the things.

Be not afraid.

Chistery 18-May-19 04:33 PM

Part One Hi, my name is Chistery. I’m the CO of Stargate: New Dawn, the XO of both USS Revenant and USS Valiant, and the Chief Corpsman of USS Black Hawk. This is a last minute adjustment of topic. It seems the previous panel covered most of what I was going to try to have us discuss in this one. DO NOT FEAR

I am using the same theme, Striking a Balance as GM/CO, just on a different topic: Bios, Applications, and Nitpicky COs/GMs: Too Nitpicky vs Not Nitpicky Enough

Part Two Every CO/GM has to deal with applications, and I’m sure at least some of this discussion is going to involve stories about the most ridiculous bios we’ve each seen. The thing with Bios is that they are out there on your site for everyone to see. They are the easiest way for a potential player to determine if your sim is a sim they want to join. They tell the potential player about your standards, about your sim’s attention to detail, about how creative the other players are, about what you’re looking for in an application and character bio. What those standards are depends on the CO, but once you’ve set your standards, how nitpicky should you be about them? Too nitpicky and you scare people away or get a bad rep, but if you’re too lax and let in some really bad bios and often the accompanying bad players, then you also get a bad rap.

If anyone is in here, what do you guys think makes a good bio?

Blondie 18-May-19 04:36 PM

for Characters?

Chistery 18-May-19 04:36 PM

Yes. Character apps.

What would the ideal bio displayed on your site look like.

thinking about this, not all formats display bios, but for those of us who use Nova or something similar, what do you want potential players to see when they look over your site?

Blondie 18-May-19 04:38 PM

A good backstory/history of the character, with details that are needed for the story

Chistery 18-May-19 04:38 PM

good

Blondie 18-May-19 04:39 PM

some things can be figured out in 'play' so i don't think likes and dislikes are all needed like right up front o n a bio

Chistery 18-May-19 04:39 PM

Agreed.

Details are important in part, to me, because they show that the player/applicant put some time and thought and consideration into their application.

Some people think that when I say "detailed" I mean "long"

I don't

I don't need a novel.

Blondie 18-May-19 04:40 PM

exactly

Chistery 18-May-19 04:40 PM

In fact I'd prefer it wasn't overly long.

BUT

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:40 PM

I would read the app, come to a decision to if it was a bad app, and discover why the app was bad. Usually it's either due to a lack of writing, or the player wants their character to be the quote "Baddest Motherfucker on the Board." The former is the easiest to deal with. You help them become better writers. The second isn't as easy. You need to discover why their characters had to be that awesome. I once had an application where someone was a 19 year old general who was also a field sniper ultimate marksman, with a pet who was half polar bear, half white wolf, and half siberian tiger. It was quite the sight. I sat with him for a little, asked him about his character. Then I started to identify his feelings, his emotions, and his needs. I got him to trust me and talk with me, by showing him I understood him and identified his need to be special. Once I had that, I was able to talk him into a much more reasonable character, and simply fulfilled what his need was. The desire to feel unique. He was a good player after that up until the roleplay ended.

Chistery 18-May-19 04:41 PM

It does need to look like you did more than spit in the app form in passing.

Stephen Hunter UK 18-May-19 04:41 PM

Why does anyone want engage in mother-child incest?

Chistery 18-May-19 04:41 PM

I'm going to step back from that one.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:41 PM

That seems like a very... Off topic conversation

And interesting one, but probably not the time or place.

Stephen Hunter UK 18-May-19 04:42 PM

Sorry. I'll get back on topic.

Chistery 18-May-19 04:42 PM

Whew. Thanks.

Stephen Hunter UK 18-May-19 04:42 PM

In any event, sometimes you want someone who isn't always competent in every subject under the sun.

Chistery 18-May-19 04:42 PM

Right

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:43 PM

I suppose my answer has been derailed

Chistery 18-May-19 04:43 PM

Nope

Blondie 18-May-19 04:43 PM

Long apps/bios make me not want to read them.

Chistery 18-May-19 04:43 PM

Let's go to John's point for a moment please.

Blondie 18-May-19 04:43 PM

time wasted that we could be writing

Chistery 18-May-19 04:44 PM

Working with an applicant get's you a few potential outcomes, two of which are very desireable.

Blondie 18-May-19 04:44 PM

Poeple like to feel welcome and wanted for an rp, as well

Chistery 18-May-19 04:44 PM

1) You get a good player you otherwise would have missed out on if you'd simply rejected their app.

2) If it's not working, you can amicably say "this just isn't going to work out, no hard feelings, best of luck"

Blondie 18-May-19 04:45 PM

nods

Chistery 18-May-19 04:45 PM

Which prevents you from earning a rep as a jerk.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 04:45 PM

I insist on the sample post, i need to know they can follow basic instructions. All but one person who has tried to get out of it has been a disaster

and I like decent character goals.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:46 PM

The second option can be avoided if you identify the reason why. Mind giving me a moment to write out an explanation?

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 04:46 PM

but I can write a whole essay on why character goals are essential.

Chistery 18-May-19 04:46 PM

fine by me

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 04:46 PM

In fact I did, its part of the writingadvice on DS5

Chistery 18-May-19 04:46 PM

because the same thing I think happened recently on my sim, John.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 04:46 PM

@John Yicks who me?

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:49 PM

When a player has an App, and there are problems with the app, there is a problem with theplayer. That doesn't mean they are a bad player, it just means there is something causing a problem. All their gears aren't spinning properly and usually it's very easy to put the one that is causing the problem in place. When people write, there is an expectation of grandure. You get to live out stories you normally wouldn't. This means they are trying to fulfll a need, like Kim had mentioned with her hierarchy of needs. Talk to the player and identify which need isn't being fulfilled, that they hope to have fulfilled with this character and then offer an alternative that will fulfill thatneed, without you needing to approve the character as it is.

Chistery 18-May-19 04:49 PM

That's good advice.

Blondie 18-May-19 04:49 PM

that's great advice

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:49 PM

Get good at that, you'll never have a problem with a character.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 04:50 PM

I agree that the actual application is the beginning of a conversation, not the end. Unless is very very very bad

Chistery 18-May-19 04:50 PM

In the case of the player I was working with, he wanted certain things for his character, but he kept applying for positions in which he wasn't going to get those things.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:50 PM

It'd have to be deliberate troll levels of bad for me to shy away from it personally.

Chistery 18-May-19 04:51 PM

with characters that were inappropriate for those positions.

Eventually we mutually agreed it wasn't going to work.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:51 PM

That is an interesting problem to have to deal with.

Chistery 18-May-19 04:51 PM

but it was a no hard feelings situation.

no harm

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:51 PM

Do you mind if I pose a question to you?

Chistery 18-May-19 04:51 PM

no foul

Sure.

I mean go ahead.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:52 PM

I may sound harsh, but if you sat down and thought about it, do you think you could have figured out why that player was doing those things? Then solved it? (edited)

Chistery 18-May-19 04:52 PM

No.

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:52 PM

Hmm, I want to know more, but I also want to respect the anonymity of the second party.

Chistery 18-May-19 04:53 PM

But that was because part of the problem was that he wasn't really paying attention to the join instructions either.

I think something like my Stargate sim is in some ways more problematic that Star Trek. Starfleet doesn't actually exist. The US Air Force does

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:54 PM

I'm trying very hard not to dig. It is my inclination to dig into problems because you can't solve them without getting dirty sometimes. Please, continue.

Chistery 18-May-19 04:54 PM

So

in Star Trek, you can either a) use canon, b) make stuff up, or c) "Trekify" something from the 21st Century.

In Stargate, you're playing characters with training and education that actually exists now.

But that brings me to a point.

With detail, I differentiate between personal history detail and 'technical details' (education, training, etc.)

Which prevents long bios.

But also leads to problems of sounding too nitpicky

But in my opinion, spending time researching background (training, education) for your character is not an unreasonable thing to ask of an applicant. Thoughts?

For example: If you're a doctor, what does it take to become a doctor?

an engineer?

John Yicks 18-May-19 04:59 PM

Be a masochist.

1

Chistery 18-May-19 04:59 PM

in Stargate New Dawn, a USAF Special Tactics Officer

@John Yicks lol

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:00 PM

I like to see at least one or two "formative" incidents. but they're not a must

Chistery 18-May-19 05:00 PM

I guess in this case I'm specifically referring to technical details.

The professional details, might be a better way to say it.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:01 PM

I'm more concerend with spotting the blatently not-trek and getting that rewritten. E.g. one applicant had his character raised on earth, but said his family was too poor to afford proper medical care, so had ended up in a wheel chair after an accident

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:01 PM

Lots of school. You likely won't be a 20 year old brain surgeon unless you had a bio to back it up.

Chistery 18-May-19 05:01 PM

For example, I'm usually inclined to reject "Went to Starfleet Academy, Majored In Medical" because I don't even know what that means

Exactly

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:01 PM

that too. though i tend to be flexible on how long it takes

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:01 PM

What kind of medicine?

Are you the CMO with a degree in foot medicine?

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:02 PM

simply becuase certain qualifications take different lenghts of time in different parts of the world.

Chistery 18-May-19 05:02 PM

One thing I do on my Stargate site, and only because it's so specific, is provide links to at least the USAF info.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:02 PM

e.g. a typical us phd takes 6 years, but in the UK it takes 3

Chistery 18-May-19 05:03 PM

yes

But also Americans have the mistaken impression that because the UK is a Bachelor medical degree system, that it takes less time to become a practicing physician there.

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:04 PM

And once you get out of the academy, your training doesn't end. You don't finish basic training and stop learning things. If you want those big jobs, you need to have a lot of pieces of paper saying your special behind you, and those pieces of paper take a long time to obtain.

Chistery 18-May-19 05:04 PM

if I did the math correctly several years ago, it takes longer.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:05 PM

yeah, we teach pre-med in sixth form, effectively. and then we have the university lecture stuff, and then a metric ton of on the job apprenticeshi[

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:05 PM

And then, if you want to play the character well, you yourself need to have a lot of learning behind you. Sure, you may not need to be as smart as a doctor, but you should be able to talk about what your character is good at casually and not sound like you don't know what you're talking about or making things up.

Chistery 18-May-19 05:05 PM

after the next two comments, I'm going to talk a little about that balance we're looking for.

or the next comment

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:05 PM

SO you can't be too fussy about details, as long as they've not done something very dumb, like MD in a year

Chistery 18-May-19 05:06 PM

And that's kind of where I was going next.

You've got your standards.

and your character guidelines.

you know what you want.

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:06 PM

Old characters are not the enemy >.>

Chistery 18-May-19 05:06 PM

But you're not going to get that exactly the way you want it.

What I do is look bios over and if they're bothering me, I take a step back and decide if I can live with what's bothering, whether I should ask for changes and what those changes should be, if it what's bothering me is going to take away from my enjoyment of simming so much that I need to just reject the app.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:08 PM

It depends on what they want to do. WE had one old character on DS5, but he was a civilian, worked out fine. ANother application, before I was CO basically framed it so he would be expectin gthe CO to be constantly turning to him for his "experience and insight"

[22] greenfelt22 18-May-19 05:08 PM

I’ll toss in a question since I kinda just dropped in... as a GM, where do you find the line in asking prospective players for certain level of details?

Chistery 18-May-19 05:08 PM

Often, as John suggested, I talk to the player and see what we can work out.

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:08 PM

I think more importantly, a Bio tells you a lot about how the player is going to act in character. Just in how they write it. If they write all of these amazing things in their backstory, they are going to write as if everyone should respect their character. Anything can be written well and believably, if the writer is able to write it out well and believably.

If you see "Everyone respected this character" to me that is a warning for that character expecting everyone to respect them, and when they aren't, leading the player to become agitated.

1

Chistery 18-May-19 05:09 PM

I find that Bios can tell you a lot about a player's story telling ability.

@John Yicks absolutely

Blondie 18-May-19 05:10 PM

my bios tend to flucuate depending on the character and the mood

Chistery 18-May-19 05:10 PM

One of the first things I discovered simming (came to it late) was that just because I wanted people to treat my character a certain way, didn't mean that they would

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:10 PM

Honestly, you can head off many conflicts with a player by identifying potential issues and settling them in a way that the player finds respects them, because that character may be an extensionof them and their need to be respected.

Chistery 18-May-19 05:11 PM

Sometimes that's a problem that needs to be addressed, most of the time I just need to adjust my play style.

I know, personally, for me, when I create a character, it's out of a desire to have done something that this character does. Have that level of education and training usually, but often some of their experiences as well. Of course, I'm not my character, but simming is as much roleplaying as it is writing, so there's some enjoyment for me in creating someone I could never actually be myself.

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:13 PM

It's also about teamwork.

Chistery 18-May-19 05:14 PM

So, Character Creation Guidlines: If I use them on Trek sims, they're brief, as brief as I can make them because no one wants to read through all of that.

HOWEVER

again

on a sim set in the 21st Century using existing organizations, I feel like I can be a bit more specific.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:17 PM

I have one, but its not so much as "this is what experience you fleet character should have" but more about avoiding Mary-sues, better goals than "To make captain some day" ( a personal bugbear of mine. nothing inherently wrong with it, i just find it uninspired) and staying trek like.

Chistery 18-May-19 05:17 PM

More from a player's point of view than a COs: You can Trekify a number of RL professions/things. Special Amphibious Reconnaissance Corpsman (USMC) Special Amphibious/Aerospace Reconnaissance Corpsman (SFMC) Naval Postgraduate School (USN) Starfleet Post Graduate School (SF) National Intelligence University (US Defense Intelligence Agency) Starfleet (or Federation) Intelligence University. (edited)

You have to work with the CO in question though, to make sure your idea is acceptable.

[22] greenfelt22 18-May-19 05:18 PM

I’ve always believed that the essence of the character is what matters most. Backstory rarely comes into play with Trek simming, and if it does, it’s done so intentionally. For me, the quality of the bio is important, as it tells me what I can expect from the writer. And it can give some early hints as to whether or not a character is a Mary Sue.

Chistery 18-May-19 05:18 PM

Yup

Again

I don't need a super long detailed bio about their first steps and potty training, etc. I do want detail that shows the applicant spent some time and effort and thought (edited)

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:19 PM

Hailing back to my comment. The Character isn't the problem, the player is. Without discovering what the problem with the player is, and just solving the problem in the character will just brush it under the rug and these problems will start to grow over time into a disaster.

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:20 PM

I actually got an application where most of the personal history involved their sexual incounters. We had a conversation about that.

Gallant 18-May-19 05:20 PM

Oof.

Chistery 18-May-19 05:20 PM

lol

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:20 PM

ouch

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:20 PM

Oh that sounds like a dream to deal with.

Gallant 18-May-19 05:20 PM

"When I was 17..."

I don't know. I usually view poor character profiles as a cry for help.

Most people want to write and we all started out with garbage characters.

The trick is training people, I think, or providing enough material for them to realize expectations.

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:22 PM

Or fulfilling the needs of the player, that they are trying to fulfill with the character, without the character.

Chistery 18-May-19 05:22 PM

Alright. 9 minutes or less left. I'm tempted to play "The dumbest/worst/craziest/stupidest app I ever got was..." but I'm afraid one of us will describe one of each other's apps

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:22 PM

One CO I simmed with put guidelines into the bio to help let the players know what was expected.

Chistery 18-May-19 05:23 PM

@Kathryn Burke [TF] will tell you that more than once I've made fun of a bio only to find out I was in a call with the person who wrote it or their spouse

(edited)

Andorian at Heart 18-May-19 05:23 PM

Stupidest app? I was XO on a sim which once got an app which was just a character name. We never heard back from the guy too, so it was denied

Chistery 18-May-19 05:24 PM

I've since learned to be more careful about that

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:25 PM

@Chistery , I've been in calls where other people have done that, yes.

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:25 PM

There have been a lot that I have receieved. I think the most memorable was the gentleman I mentioned previously. 19 year old general who was also a master sniper, with a pet that was half three animals, of which none were sexually compatible with each other.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:26 PM

I don't think I've got one worst. The rejected ones are all "special" in some way

though quite a few have wanted to play humans who are so underweight they could barely function. like BMI of 12/13

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 05:27 PM

Yeah okay one time I was going through articles on Role Play Wiki (so kinda but not really) and 90% of it was about sexual stuff and was basically explaining in detail how the character had sex, its reproductive system (it was a different species), and more sexual stuff about it and i was like UH OKAY

That page got deleted due to violating wiki policy to say the least

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:27 PM

which i don't mind for civilians, you want to be on deaths door, fgo for it. but not for starfleet officers

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:27 PM

That's because skinny is sexy, and leads to signs of body image issues.

enterDanement 18-May-19 05:27 PM

eh

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:27 PM

not that skinny

they took people out of Belsen with higher BMI

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:28 PM

It's a sign of body image issue.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:28 PM

Oh I get that.

enterDanement 18-May-19 05:28 PM

I wouldn't say skinny is sexy. Back 100 years ago, bigger people were attractive

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 05:28 PM

And more recent actually

"Thicc" is better

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:28 PM

it just seems to be the one common thread.

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 05:28 PM

or rather slim thicc but

that is subjective

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:28 PM

I'm not saying how it is. I am saying that in the time and in the persons mind skinny is sexy and therefore the character eulated that and as such is likely a sign of insecurity.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:28 PM

I understand all about body issues. My primary PC has a rack and a half, and is 6 foot 4 for a reason.

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:29 PM

I could have articulated better, my apologies.

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 05:29 PM

ahh

makes sense then

no worries

enterDanement 18-May-19 05:29 PM

a rack and a half xD

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:29 PM

Three breasts?

enterDanement 18-May-19 05:29 PM

2 1/2?

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:29 PM

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 05:29 PM

Alright, thank you @Chistery for the panel! If you'd like I can move you to overflow.

Chistery 18-May-19 05:30 PM

I'm good. My son just arrived so I have to run. Thanks all!

𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲 18-May-19 05:30 PM

Alright, then with that, onto the next panel!

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:30 PM

Thanks for the panel!

Chistery 18-May-19 05:31 PM

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:32 PM

Very good job.

enterDanement 18-May-19 05:32 PM

Bravo! Even though I literally just came in

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:34 PM

Okay. I think we're ready for the next one.

enterDanement 18-May-19 05:34 PM

I believe that's you

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:34 PM

Yup. I'm getting my ducks in a row. (they're running amok)

Andorian at Heart 18-May-19 05:34 PM

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:35 PM

First, if I ignore a comment you make, just repeat it. I'm visually impaired and my assistant isn't here.

First, a bit about me. I've been simming for ten years, roleplaying a whole lot longer. I like having two NPCs on my sims so I can be quirky. I run a couple of sims and play on more.

Quite often, players look for open Department Head positions because it can be difficult to get involved in a mission if you're just a science officer or just a nurse, but there are some things you can do to keep relevant and to have fun.

We're going to talk about a few, and I'd love feedback from you as well.

Some things you can do: 1) Ask for assignments from your CO, XO, or Department Head. 2) Have a specialty. That makes it easier to get involved. 3) Ask if your character can be on the bridge for gamma shift.

Some sims, if they have a lot of players, will let secondary characters on the late shift.

And rotate people to give everyone a chance to be part of the main plot.

I'd like to go department by department with some basic ideas. Chime in if you hnave others.

Security: Go on patrol. Find something small that needs to be dealt with. (No, Marines aren't going to be brawling in the corridors.) Someone's pet stole something, or got lost. Something goes missing in someone's quarters (get another player involved) Run the brig.

Yes, I had my new Marine CO (the sim allowes Marines) walk on board and stop THREE fights on his way to the bridge. I informed him that Marines do not brawl onboard ships. They do in bars on shore leave.

He changed his tag and was fine after that.

Any suggestions for playing a lowly security officer?

Who is NOT a Chief or Assistant?

enterDanement 18-May-19 05:42 PM

I have a PNPC that's a tactical/security Bajoran that I play every now and then if the story fits for one

The ship I'm on has a couple PC security officers already

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:43 PM

One of the good things about security is you need multiple sercurity personnel for away teams, and for problems.

Yito Seja 18-May-19 05:44 PM

As a security officer I would spend time training and in the gym

Going to phaser range, holodeck training

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:45 PM

there's always training others. helping with marksmanship, or basic sselflfdns

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:45 PM

That's the fun part about playing the Mater-at-Arms. You can do training.

Or break up an argument in the lounge (doesn't have to be a brawl)

Yito Seja 18-May-19 05:46 PM

Maybe you run a martial arts class or exercise class. Would depend on rank and skills

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:47 PM

Yes. That can be fun.

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:47 PM

Paperwork. Security involves a lot of paper work, and can ground your character in reality because you are doing something no one ever mentions but has to be done.

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:47 PM

I'll move on, but you can still comment on security.

that's an awesome idea!

Flight Control: Take a shuttle and be a courier Pick someone up Fly a new character to the ship (NPC the pilot) Pick up supplies

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:48 PM

Also involves a lot of paper work.

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:48 PM

EVERY department has paperwork. A nice touch.

John Yicks 18-May-19 05:48 PM

When in doubt, paperwork.

enterDanement 18-May-19 05:48 PM

I have 2 PCs in 118. One of them on another ship that's a HCO officer (Helm. Communications, and Operations)

Yito Seja 18-May-19 05:49 PM

There a few that will apply to all. All departments will need to do training. For a pilot keeping up hours or training on new shuttle.

enterDanement 18-May-19 05:49 PM

And it was definitely interesting researching the treknobabble on how to simulate flight control

Plus the different types of shuttles, runabouts, Argos, things of that nature, the starship itself

GinaC 18-May-19 05:50 PM

Helping with repairs to the helm or a shuttle could always work too

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:50 PM

Yes. Treknobabble helps every position You sound like you know what you're doing, and others will gravitate to that character.

That goes for fighter pilots as well. There are always repairs on the ships.

enterDanement 18-May-19 05:50 PM

Yeah, she's a Barzan officer. If you've watched Discovery it's the species with the breathing device

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:51 PM

And training.

Andorian at Heart 18-May-19 05:51 PM

Engineers can always be doing routine maintenance and system checks

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:52 PM

nods

Medical Help with triage Do some xenobiology experiments Help someone who got injured playing a sport Be a nurse and assist the CMO

enterDanement 18-May-19 05:52 PM

Also @GinaC had a really cool thing going where in our region of space the communication is really bad so she and some others refitted a shuttle with some alloy (edited)

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:52 PM

I have an NPC nurse who passes out tea and cookies.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:53 PM

I also think there's a lot to be said for being nosy. Having played a civilian, you've got no right to be anywhere fleet related, so just being curious about what others are up to, getting them to reflect on recent events generated a lot of posts

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:53 PM

Nice.

Engineering & Ops Maintenance Get stuck somewhere Get a shipment of supplies Do power allocation Recalibrate something. Be the one to go out and do repairs. After combat, everything needs to be fixed

enterDanement 18-May-19 05:53 PM

@Andorian at Heart all you lol

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:54 PM

Nosy can always be interesting.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:54 PM

external hull checks can be fun, out in the black, only magboots between you and drifting off forever

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:54 PM

That can make a really fun post.

I read a post that was a probe coming into the atmosphere and going through a tree into the soil. It was very well written.

GinaC 18-May-19 05:55 PM

Pet projects

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:55 PM

Some of this has already been mentioned.

Operations: The UT is malfunctioning and you're getting everything in Klingon Transporter Room One is malfunctioning Have a replicator go out Have the replicator in the lounge only serve Klingon food

You can write with ANYONE about their replicator malfunctioning.

GinaC 18-May-19 05:56 PM

I recently started with an operations character and she was doing repairs to her console

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:56 PM

Yes. Pet projects work well.

That's why I like characters with specialties. I have an Ops character who loves old-fashioned rasios and likes to build them. She actually had to create one on an away team to call for help.

Yito Seja 18-May-19 05:57 PM

I try to think about a real world jobs and fit relate tasks in that to my role. For security I think of current military and police officer.

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 05:58 PM

That can be a great resource.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:58 PM

given how the Universal translater seems to be made of an implant plus computer relay to help ick up new language, ops and medical could have some fun if someone's implant went on the blink (edited)

GinaC 18-May-19 05:58 PM

If you think of the word operations, it really can be anything that relates to the functioning of the ship

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 05:58 PM

sorry ,y keyboard must need new batteries. it keeps skipping

Yito Seja 18-May-19 05:59 PM

I had my character once go a conference on security

GinaC 18-May-19 05:59 PM

External trainings are definitely good fodder

If you're looking for a long-term story arc you can always have your character going for another degree or certification related to something in their field to help them become more specialized (edited)

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:00 PM

Yes. Or cross-training with another department.

Science Run the arboretum. There's always something to do there. Interact with characters who visit. Play around with different plants and flowers. Set up a holographic castle or treehouse. Run Astrometrics. Work on stellar cartography Have an accident in a lab (only damage the lab) Ask the CO if you can run a science conference on the ship.

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:01 PM

oooo

GinaC 18-May-19 06:01 PM

This is definitely one work pet projects can come in handy. Lots of opportunities for specialization and personal projects

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:01 PM

Ok, I play the chief science officer and I love everything about the duty post

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:02 PM

This is my favorite department. Scientists (like others) should have a specialty. That gives you a lot to write about.

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:02 PM

There's so much science related things that can be incorporated into a mission and have it go in in a totally different direction

GinaC 18-May-19 06:02 PM

There's a reason why the science department is typically the second largest department on a given ship

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:03 PM

Yeah, German is a Temporal Scientist, Xenobiologist, and Quantum Physicist

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:03 PM

SO much can go wrong in science. And if it does, you have to involve other departments, so lots of chance for interaction.

I love to run the arboertum and astrometrics because I can play with so many things there, and experiment.

GinaC 18-May-19 06:04 PM

Given how close the two Duty posts are in what they deal with, science and medical are pretty common collaborations

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:04 PM

Oh of course! That's all the reason to have others ideas and try to fix the problem at hand

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:04 PM

One of my PCs did a presentation in astrometrics with 3-D holographic images to illustrate her presentation.

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:04 PM

Nice!

German had an idea where to control sentient plants from attacking people by reversing their age process through temporal data

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:06 PM

On one ship we had the holographic matrix go wonky. So, I had a medieval castle in the arboretum and the French Knights from Monty Python throwing things at people.

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:06 PM

Also exploring new regions of space is fun too. Like actual places out there like the pillars of creation that hasn't been in trek canon

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:06 PM

@enterDanement , I need to use that!

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:07 PM

Go ahead! You won't owe me anything lol

GinaC 18-May-19 06:07 PM

Definitely. Studying supernatural phenomena, difference types of elements that may be out there, anything that could potentially introduce something new into your story and give others something to work into the plot

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:09 PM

German Galven, LOL

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:09 PM

And trying to figure out how to close anomalies is always fun

GinaC 18-May-19 06:09 PM

Anthropology is a science too. You could always have characters that are studying new races

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:09 PM

although closing temporal rifts is hard cause German likes time travel lol

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:09 PM

Science, if you get down to the different specialties, gives you a lot to work with.

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:09 PM

Oh yeah we have come up with a lot of new races in 118

or species

Yito Seja 18-May-19 06:10 PM

I think collobrations can happen between most departments. I've done a training murder mystery with medical.

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:10 PM

I play historians, archaeologists, and anthropologists, primarily. I love finding ancient civilizations.

Yito Seja 18-May-19 06:10 PM

I'm in security

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:10 PM

I've done paintball. :0

Intel Go off ship to acquire intel for the next mission Go undercover to a diplomatic party to get information (No James Bond stuff!) An Intel Officer gathers information only. Be an archivist and be the person everyone comes to for information

GinaC 18-May-19 06:10 PM

A lot of it is the details of the story and the different twists that you throw in to make it interesting. Really if you're thoughtful you can find something to do for almost every Department if not every Department

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:10 PM

oh well no james bond stuff then forget it!

lol

jk'

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:11 PM

I've played "Capture the Flat" with paintball for cross-training.

Most of the time, Intel is not James Bond. He's a paid assassin.

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:11 PM

I know. I was being goofy

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:11 PM

Capture the Flag

GinaC 18-May-19 06:11 PM

Intel I see as being useful for undercover operations like observing a pre-warp species (edited)

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:11 PM

I know, but I've had WAY too m any people want to play James Bond.

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:12 PM

Well I sim a Denobulan it's kinda hard not to be James Bond

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:12 PM

Yes. Intel and science.

And Intel is really good at information gathering in any invironment.

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:13 PM

That's true. It kind of goes hand in hand with science tho

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:13 PM

Intel agents are more like Jack Ryan.

Yes. A great way for the two departemtns (science and intel) to work together.

Sorry, my cat likes to walk across my keyboard and now I have sticky keys. (

(plus I typo words)

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:14 PM

words. It's not like we use them everyday or something!

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:14 PM

lol

Play the cook in the galley or lounge Be a bartender Start a party post Start a training post Start a holodeck post Do a below decks post with other non-coms and junior officers Often, you can find a buddy to help you cause minor chaos and get others involved.

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:15 PM

I can cause chaos on my own, but love to bring others into it lol

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:15 PM

Me, too. It's more fun to cause chaos with a buddy.

GinaC 18-May-19 06:15 PM

My character specializes in martial arts so I like to do a lot of Holodeck programs with her where she does her own personal fitness routine. That makes for some interesting Shore leaves that offers opportunities for others to walk in and join

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 06:16 PM

Being the bartender rocks. I can confirm this

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:16 PM

I have a security officer that is a martial artist. She prefers using a staff to a phaser.

Yito Seja 18-May-19 06:16 PM

Minor chaos is fun

Uso 18-May-19 06:16 PM

I read that as 'Manga Artist" at first

FruitLoop 18-May-19 06:17 PM

Bartenders are awesome. You hear about stuff before anyone else.

GinaC 18-May-19 06:17 PM

It's also fun to write for civilians like if your ship allows it teachers, independent researchers, Etc

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:17 PM

I love minor chaos! You can get so many people to participate. One one sim, three of us went from department to department doing minor repairs--and failing.

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:17 PM

I like ordering drinks no one has ever heard of. I recently got a few raised eyebrows when my barzan officer ordered a Denobulan Screw. That can be taken in so many ways lol

Yito Seja 18-May-19 06:17 PM

My character spends alot of time on the phaser range, isn't as good at physical combat.

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:17 PM

Beautiful Night does a great job with civilians on her sim.

I have an NPC who is an astrophysicist. He runs the astrometrics lab. He loves comic books and has his favorite holographic characters. Whenever the ship is in danger, he activates his holoprogram to protect the lab.

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:20 PM

What's Theta Fleet's current stardate?

Yito Seja 18-May-19 06:20 PM

I usually more interact with NPC civilians. A grumpy scientist who won't move/shut down experient during an evacuation of non essential areas.

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:20 PM

Starbases and colonies are the best for playing civilians. You have a wider variety.

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:21 PM

What about Diplomats? Those officers come in handy during a first contact mission

Yito Seja 18-May-19 06:21 PM

I'm on an old galaxy class so we have a few civilians

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:21 PM

Depends. Task Force 23 is 2395. Area 51 is anything else.

Galaxy classes are my personal favorites.

Yito Seja 18-May-19 06:21 PM

Only a year behind SB118

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:21 PM

118 is 2396 so not far ahead

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:22 PM

Yito Seja 18-May-19 06:22 PM

I love galaxy classes but old now.

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:23 PM

there's about to be a refitted one Seja

GinaC 18-May-19 06:23 PM

The interesting thing is that certain aspects of the two fleets' canon likely look completely different

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:23 PM

I haven't mentioned counselors or diplomats, but they can be fun, too. Especiallyl as NPCs. They can also be both at the sametime.

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:24 PM

Oh yeah, we have character achievements on some of our ships about visiting counselors

Andorian at Heart 18-May-19 06:24 PM

I have an NPC diplomat, she is fun

GinaC 18-May-19 06:24 PM

If you even wanted to take the counseling role a bit further you could write for an NPC forensic psychologist

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:25 PM

I think every group/fleet/roleplay is different. But that what makes the simming community vibrant. IMO

enterDanement 18-May-19 06:25 PM

It's really good opportunity for character development

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:25 PM

I have a forensic anthropologist on a sim.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:25 PM

5 minute warning before the next panel.

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:26 PM

Thanks!

I'm basically done, but I really like all your comments!

Yito Seja 18-May-19 06:26 PM

Thanks for running this

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:27 PM

Thanks for commenting!

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:27 PM

We can transition you guys into Overflow if you'd like to continue. Thank for you hosting, @Kathryn Burke [TF] .

Kathryn Burke [TF] 18-May-19 06:27 PM

I think we're pretty much done.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:27 PM

Next panel is: Writing Believable Female Characters.

Gallant 18-May-19 06:30 PM

Been looking forward to this one all morning.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:32 PM

Hello again! Once again I am Kim from SU and TNU. This is the panel I was asked to host during FallFest! I wanted to start off once more with a comedy bit. https://youtu.be/ISvFJw9JMlI

Viva La Dirt League

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You're a girl. ------Acknowledgments------- Huge thanks to Brandon Fiechter for letting us use his Music. If you like it please check it out here and buy his...

And of course, the classic: https://youtu.be/urNyg1ftMIU

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Before I start, is there anything specifically people wanted to have answered? And yes, I am actually a Woman in real life.

Blondie 18-May-19 06:34 PM

Just interested in hearing what you have to say, (as a woman myself that mainly plays women)

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:36 PM

I don't actually think it's really that hard to write a character. I think of them as people and just think about what motivates them and what experiences shaped them to be as they are presently in the story.

But I do see people that fall into the category of trying so very hard to be 1) TOO Sexy; 2) TOO Kawaii! ; or 3) PINK.

Andorian at Heart 18-May-19 06:37 PM

What is Kawaii?

Zuzutoo 18-May-19 06:37 PM

Equally intrigued as a man that seems to have predominantly female characters.

Uso 18-May-19 06:37 PM

It is weeb for cute.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:37 PM

Kawaii is the Japanese word for cute.

Andorian at Heart 18-May-19 06:37 PM

Ah, thanks for the clarification

Zuzutoo 18-May-19 06:38 PM

I know sexy, and kawaii, what is pink?

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:38 PM

So these characters are Adults or older teens playing up the little girl school girl vibe.

Mimi 18-May-19 06:38 PM

@Zuzutoo same here.

Zuzutoo 18-May-19 06:38 PM

Ah

Mimi 18-May-19 06:38 PM

i play mostly female character despite being a bloke

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:38 PM

Gallant 18-May-19 06:38 PM

There's a tendency I think for people to play women like they imagine women to be rather than as people in their own right.

1

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 06:39 PM

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cc/c0/15/ccc01593d4dc4364dd02900ea0a83e9e.jpg

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:39 PM

We are trying to make sure everyone knows that we are writing a female by being over the top stereotypically feminine.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 06:39 PM

newsflash boys. We are people

Uso 18-May-19 06:40 PM

Coming from the other side. if I'm writing a female character they are usually something else first, and a female second. I don't really know how to include 'what it means to be female' as a character trait other than it being just incidental that their body is female.

1

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:40 PM

Writing a believable female character is just thinking of them as actual people. I hear complaints from my male sailors all the time when there is suddenly another female joining our workcenter because they don't want to listen to "chick" conversations. I usually roll my eyes and say, "well, I guess, I can start gossiping about BOYS and make-up and talk about my period..."

So there is some disconnect. I usually see the characters that are trying over the top to walk into a room with that slow motion type of pan in the romantic comedies as over compensating and ridiculous.

Blondie 18-May-19 06:42 PM

nods

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:43 PM

This are the character entrances where everything in the room stops and all eyes go to the female character. We admire her beauty and grace before we fall over ourselves to talk to her.

Gallant 18-May-19 06:43 PM

Swoon.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:43 PM

Or we have these scenes.. .. https://youtu.be/ZaqF-7v9BtY

roadofrarotonga

Not Another Teen Movie - 'Transformation' Scene

The scene where Janie goes from loser to winner.

GinaC 18-May-19 06:44 PM

Well most types of female characters are going to be more emotionally sensitive oh, there are some out there that are actually more emotionally constrained than some male characters. Gender shouldn't matter with regard to emotionality and sensitivity. It's all about your character and their past as you've written it

For example with my character, while she's more flirtatious she is also not as in tune with what she's feeling. That's giving me a lot to work with in regards to character development

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:46 PM

I know several emotional and sensitive men. I think the notion of the stoic apathetic male lead are pretty much dying, where you aren't allowed to write a guy having a large emotional range. The same goes for female leads where they are characters first and females second.

Uso 18-May-19 06:47 PM

I think it is easier for a guy to write about what it means to be a guy, than for a guy to write about what it means to be a girl.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:47 PM

My favorite example is Ripley in the Aliens movies because she is a well developed and motivated character. Her gender isn't as much of a big deal as her being a civilian.

Beautiful Night 18-May-19 06:47 PM

Ripley was also written to be a man originally

Gallant 18-May-19 06:47 PM

Which says something, I think.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:48 PM

Well, for me, I don't exhibit stereotypical female personality traits or mannerisms. I was mostly raised by father.

Uso 18-May-19 06:48 PM

Still, there must be some amount of mulan like understanding you have of what people expect of you for being a girl.

Gallant 18-May-19 06:48 PM

In my experience there's very little practical difference between male and female characters in emotional range. When the gender becomes an issue is when the gender plays some specific role for the story. If it's important that there's a queen on the throne for instance as opposed to a king - because of some social conventions.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:49 PM

I approach writing my characters as thinking about who they are as people rather than their gender. I honestly write my male and female characters the same- i just switch pronouns and then reference societal perceptions of them.

GinaC 18-May-19 06:49 PM

I do feel like there's a certain expectation of women it to be delicate creatures who faints at the sound of foul language. When in truth most women have been exposed to it enough during their lifetime that it doesn't bother them nearly as much. Of course this is just one example of some female stereotypical traits that men assume they have. When writing for female characters I do take their gender into consideration slightly, however I also try to incorporate traits that are just general personality

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:50 PM

There is something I read in the Mrytles plantation novel about "waving the lace fan". Where in the South, you are a Lady and must "depend on the kindness of strangers" to save you from the big bad man.

But if you are writing women with a stereotype in mind as the truth of it, they are going to feel hollow. Like Blanche in a Streetcar named desire was like that because of the times.

GinaC 18-May-19 06:52 PM

I always have been kind of adverse to those weak women who depend on men for their every need. It's one thing to trust a man to protect you oh, but it's completely another to act like the female is helpless without the male

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:52 PM

https://youtu.be/P_VgDHPDtK8

Movieclips

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GinaC 18-May-19 06:52 PM

What so few realize is that women have a strength all their own

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:53 PM

I also know women who are hyper feminine but they are independent and functional women. Liking lace and dainty things doesn't means she can't do something.

Zuzutoo 18-May-19 06:54 PM

As a man, I typically look to the women in my life, moms, sisters, girlfriends, daughters, and think of how they react to situations as opposed to how I might.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:56 PM

More writers fall into Tropes to define their female characters. But you should try to think about things from another person's perspective. Why might they be feeling angry about this? What else is going on? Is there pressure on the character from the rest of the crew? How should I feel about this random PC hitting on me?

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 06:56 PM

the random hitting on stuff... yeah

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:56 PM

Should I be flattered because I think he's cute or upset that he doesn't respect my boundaries?

Is it the time for the flirting? Like am I about to go die? Did my cat just die?

Am I about to lift this heavy ass box?

Wes of StarArmy [SA] 18-May-19 06:58 PM

How not to write women: http://funny-pictures-quotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/funny-Jack-Nicholson-writing-women.jpg

GinaC 18-May-19 06:58 PM

What I'd like to do for a lot of my characters is go based on astrological signs. This gives a more realistic personality trait list

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 06:59 PM

Admitting your own limits is not a weakness. If the character is not strong, then asking for help makes sense. Expecting people to volunteer automatically is entitlement.

2

People randomly going, "Hey that looks heavy, let me get that for you" is a mixed bag because it is either thinking you are weak or just being thoughtful, reaction will vary based on your relationship to that person. If you are feeling offended by the tone, then you can react to it.

Jimmy [SU+WSO] 18-May-19 07:01 PM

I feel like this is turning into "How male characters should react to female characters" instead of the original topic.

Uso 18-May-19 07:01 PM

I'm reminded of the "Do I tip?" Scene from dear white people.

GinaC 18-May-19 07:01 PM

I wanted to avoid that stereotypical weak female so I had my character be stronger than all human men and most men of other species. (edited)

Gallant 18-May-19 07:02 PM

Well to an extent, we define gender by the expectations of people. That bleeds into writing.

So in part to play better female characters you have to realize your own conditioning to a certain extent, and then realize that it's false.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 07:02 PM

Well, the two things are interconnected. You want to think about these things and how to react. I get frustrated in real life because people challenge my depth of knowledge based on my physical appearance- I look young.

Gallant 18-May-19 07:02 PM

So I don't think that talking about how men treat women is out of line at all.

Or vice versa.

It's also sort of a life skill.

Kirby [SU] 18-May-19 07:03 PM

also great jumping points for character character/ personal character development in RP

Zuzutoo 18-May-19 07:04 PM

All these factors can and do change based on the character idea.

GinaC 18-May-19 07:04 PM

Also these stereotypical gender roles can be great opportunities for character development. It could allow opportunities for you to show how your character is not the typical man or woman or whatever

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 07:05 PM

Gender only becomes an issue if you are dealing with a cultural barrier where the Gender bias is very real. Dealing with Korean Military Officers as a Female Junior Enlisted meant their experience is that Females volunteer for service and come in with limited knowledge for 2 - 3 years of service. Korean women are still fighting that perception of how they should act towards men. So I had to fight to convince them I was the subject matter expert.

Zuzutoo 18-May-19 07:06 PM

I tend to be contrary to the sim environment. If it's a strong band of rebels I write a pacifistic woman that supports the government.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 07:06 PM

So it does happen but I see it happen less often in roleplay since people just try to react to what people are actually doing.

Writing from personal experience or adding that experience into a character's backstory can make them feel more real. I try to get into a character's headspace to write them as individuals. How would this character feel in this situation? What shaped them to be this way?

Wes of StarArmy [SA] 18-May-19 07:08 PM

Thinking about how culture and society in your particular setting has influenced people (of both genders) is important - different settings have different norms. For example in far future sci-fi, gender may mean different things. We've seen how in the Starship Troopers movie, the men and women are considered equals and both get drafted for the military, shower together, etc.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 07:10 PM

Also true. It's really just treating them as people. My dudes are just guys motivated by their goals. Much like my chicks are.

2

GinaC 18-May-19 07:10 PM

I would definitely say looking at a character's past and considering how their gender may have progressed or impeded their career goals or their overall life goals definitely makes for a viable female character. It gives you opportunities to develop out of the obstacles (edited)

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 07:12 PM

What makes them female is just the notion that they think they are female. That means different things to different people. Some people are more conscious of their body image. Some people are more emotional than others.

Zuzutoo 18-May-19 07:13 PM

Obstacles are the catalyst of character development. It really comes down to what you want to explore with the character you have created.

Jimmy [SU+WSO] 18-May-19 07:13 PM

Kim, can you elaborate for me what you think are some of differences between how male characters and female characters make value judgements, and how such judgements may influence how they achieve their goals?

Wes of StarArmy [SA] 18-May-19 07:13 PM

I posted some space-Korean women in the #pictures channel

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 07:15 PM

It depends really. I approach things rationally. What makes the most sense to optimize performance? If I approach it emotionally, it's what I feel is the most morally right thing to do or what I think would be best for someone emotionally.

Wes of StarArmy [SA] 18-May-19 07:15 PM

Grumps: I think that if in your setting, like if it's modern, men are taught by society to act more macho and hold in their feelings while women are basically stereotypes as emotional, true or not. The classic example is that when a man gets angry he's considered passionate and an angry woman saying the same thing is considered hysterical.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 07:15 PM

Rational decision making: I am hungry, I should eat. Emotional decision making: I am sad. I want chocolate to feel better.

Wes of StarArmy [SA] 18-May-19 07:16 PM

(Yogurt commercials are terrible at portraying women as "indulging" instead of just eating, and then they throw in all the weight loss BS.) (edited)

GinaC 18-May-19 07:17 PM

From what I know of the differences, men or more Warrior based. They are the protectors and the fighters of the home. Women tend to protect the children and the family and will be more focused on making a comfortable environment for those they love. They value communication

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 07:17 PM

Rational decision making: I have two people with the same qualifications and work ethic. I will just pick one at random since I can pick one. Emotional Decision making: I will pick the one that needs it more.

Zuzutoo 18-May-19 07:18 PM

My wife and I are discussing this. Me writing a woman and her writing a woman are very different, just as her writing a man and me writing one is different. How do we frame the experience that is not us in a way that is true and believable.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 07:19 PM

But this goes for both men and women. Women are encouraged to go for emotional decisions while men are told to make rational decisions if we are pushing societal perceptions towards appropriate courses of action.

I am co-writing a book with Gallant. And there are times when he doesn't recognize if he wrote his character or if I wrote it.

GinaC 18-May-19 07:20 PM

Well it's simply the fact that women are expected to be more emotional creatures rather than working out of logic (edited)

Wes of StarArmy [SA] 18-May-19 07:20 PM

I feel like women are so diverse that almost anything you write is believable as long as you're consistent.

1

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 07:21 PM

Writing from someone else's perspective is always difficult but if you try to approach it as just writing a strong, well developed character it'll make it easier.

1

Like, I think I talk about death, metal and porn more than some of my guy friends...

Gallant 18-May-19 07:22 PM

I am forgetful. But if the character is well defined enough, and easy to understand.

Kirby [SU] 18-May-19 07:22 PM

Really depends on how the character is really, I've had several characters who happen to be female and each of them has a personality that may or may not be feminine. I mean realistically there are dudes who act girly and dudettes who act manly.

Gallant 18-May-19 07:22 PM

And that is also true! Why, just this morning she suggested I die in my sleep peacefully as opposed to living out miserable existence!

;p

Traffic can lead anyone to murder.

Anyone.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 07:23 PM

Up, it looks like my time is about up. Final thoughts?

I thought this video commentary approached this topic well! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5asVUCGmmEE

Now You See It

Writing Women

Check out CuriosityStream and get 30 days for free at https://curiositystream.com/nowyouseeit, with the promocode “nowyouseeit" There isn’t one right way to ...

Josh is up next!

Wes of StarArmy [SA] 18-May-19 07:25 PM

Thanks for hosting this panel, it's been one of the most engaging of today's. You did a great job hosting and I hope you'll host a panel next year Kim.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 07:25 PM

Thank you, Wes.

1

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 07:25 PM

Kim is amazing

Uso 18-May-19 07:26 PM

Hm, I was thinking of Mulan for the majority of this... but Ridley between Alien and Aliens is a good example too.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 07:28 PM

I can post the "Man out of you" MV in videos and clear out for Josh.

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 07:28 PM

ill be starting in just a moment; in this panel I will be talking about universe continuity and universes that have multiple plots/games running in them side by side... should be a pretty engaging topic as really this is a brainstorming session for everyone and a place for all of us to learn from. be around in a moment... lol pats Kim

Alrighty; so my first thought in regards to this is regarding multiple plots/stories that occur simultaneously... This becomes sort of hard to manage especially if you only have one showrunner; how have people approached this in their games... Any advice you have for your fellow writers/showrunners on this topic?

Gallant 18-May-19 07:34 PM

I'd ask to define one showrunner - one person? One GM handling multiple plots?

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 07:35 PM

One GM handling multiple plots

Wes of StarArmy [SA] 18-May-19 07:35 PM

I have a site where hundreds of RP plots/starship sims have been in the same universe, usually about a dozen at a time, and I hosted a previous year's panel on this topic and grab my notes if you like.

Although, maybe I misunderstood, I thought you meant many GMs in one universe, not one GM

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 07:36 PM

The particular question is one gm handling multiple plots; I plan to ask more with regards to many GMs.

Right now its one.

Wes of StarArmy [SA] 18-May-19 07:36 PM

OK.

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 07:37 PM

Since one GM handling a pretty large universe is kind of difficult especially if you dont want to railroad your community

Gallant 18-May-19 07:37 PM

The simple answer is that I don't - delegation is my solution to what you're talking about.

When a plot becomes too large for me to handle, I pick a few likely players, and hire sub-Storytellers.

Then I can keep all the stories straight with a quick conference, and we can easily plan the way forwards.

Wes of StarArmy [SA] 18-May-19 07:39 PM

I like to use a wiki to try to keep track of all the faces, places, and facts of my RP universes - sometimes memory can be fuzzy and being able to search references is hugely useful. I recommend every GM use a wiki or some form of of electronic notes.

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 07:39 PM

So then a follow up question to that; for the non-GMs in the group how do you guys get involved when you have a game that has one person running it but they are not involving you; this is really a multi-faceted question but in this I am just asking about from a storytelling prospective?

Uso 18-May-19 07:41 PM

That is something I don't have a great answer for. If you have a bad GM, being a great player and generating activity on your own feels a lot like just spinning your wheels. Your efforts may be better spent finding another GM.

Wes of StarArmy [SA] 18-May-19 07:42 PM

The best GMs make everyone feel like their character is meaningful to the story.

TO do that, the best way is to actually make their characters meaningful to the story.

Mecha meme 18-May-19 07:43 PM

As a player, that always feels great. (edited)

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 07:45 PM

Alright so then on to the next question which is involving multiple storywriters. So you have a group and a large universe with many writers but everyone is running around in their own direction; how do you make it all fluid and actually make sense without breaking one person's story or making someone feel like an outcast?

Mecha meme 18-May-19 07:45 PM

As a someone who has dabbled in GMing, that's very hard to do though

At least in a way that doesn't end up feeling fleeting.

Gallant 18-May-19 07:45 PM

You weave.

That is to say, you find reasons for those setting elements to interact. You talk about how they could.

What does it mean if one planet is low-tech, but the next is high? What might occur? For instance.

Does the high-tech element view them as low-tech scum, or do they have some sort of Prime Directive?

What sort of story can be told through the interaction?

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 07:47 PM

Exactly

Wes of StarArmy [SA] 18-May-19 07:47 PM

Well, one of my favorite things about most of the Star Trek shows and The Orville is that they have an ensemble cast where the main characters each get their spotlight times. I think this translates well to RP too.

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 07:47 PM

tech and what is fantasy and all

technically everythign we do is fiction

and fantasy

its up to interpretation

Gallant 18-May-19 07:47 PM

I find that focusing on finding purpose within the setting elements that you see created in your setting is important when viewing the setting as a whole.

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 07:48 PM

so your fellow writers and you yourself define what is what

and that goes back to Wes stating using a wiki or notes

so what are peoples best thoughts on methods for note taking and encouraging people to make sections in your wiki to expand/develop et el your combined universe?

Gallant 18-May-19 07:49 PM

The beatings will continue until the wiki improves!

... lol joking.

I've found that encouraging the use of the wiki as a note-taker, as has been mentioned in the conversation before, is helpful. To a certain extent, we've simply opened our Wiki to all contributions. We're under a creative license that explicitly states that the contributor retains rights to their work, which resolves any issues that may arise from a person's lack of feeling of ownership.

Uso 18-May-19 07:50 PM

The key there is work on the stuff that is going to be used. Fluff and worldbuilding is great and all but you also need to keep your effort focused on what your're actually doing: Simming/RPing/etc.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 07:50 PM

We encourage people to work out rough ideas on the wiki and try to fine tune some things through roleplay. We bounce ideas back and forth in Voice or through other discussions.

Gallant 18-May-19 07:50 PM

So you can submit things to Shattered Universe, but they are legally your things which you are giving license to use creatively.

Mhm.

Apart from that, Kim's mentioned another point - it can be rough.

When people are interested in something, they tend to work on it, and it improves over time.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 07:52 PM

I keep a google doc where I write my notes down and add to it as I go.

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 07:52 PM

So t hen how od you initially get people to use the wiki; universe building is important but what if people don't want to use it?

Gallant 18-May-19 07:52 PM

I find when you make expectations clear to people, they're obliging. As in, if they want their work to be used - most people do - this is what's expected.

Admittedly we had to close a discord channel on setting development, because people wouldn't use the wiki to answer their questions - they'd just ask them offhandedly in the channel and we wanted to encourage wiki and forum use.

So as far as we're concerned, we did have to do a little tinkering with the way that our website was set up, in order to encourage certain behaviors.

enterDanement 18-May-19 07:55 PM

In 118, we have 9 different ships running completely different missions at the same time or some could be on shoreleave and whatnot. Each have their own google group that when we email a sim, it gets posted there

We're a PBEM group

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 07:56 PM

So that makes each sort of thier own universe just within the same canon; how do you interlink the groups; this is less of a problem for chat and forum based groups but could still happen on both ends

enterDanement 18-May-19 07:57 PM

Not really, because we have a forums page as well where we share with one another what's going on with our separate ships. Also an IC news service that'll share mission reports and such

Oh I mean yes really?

I don't understand what you said tbh lol

Oh. I've never played forum based games

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 07:59 PM

It really depends. Not every storyline is connected to the overarching Meta plot of the setting. Like, what happens on USS Enterprise does not necessarily impact what happens in the overall United States.

What happens in your house doesn't necessarily affect your neighbors unless you shot a bullet through the wall or yell loud enough for other people to hear.

Gallant 18-May-19 07:59 PM

Scope?

enterDanement 18-May-19 07:59 PM

Oh for sure. What'll happen in one quadrant won't really affect others in another quadrant unless it;s like the dominion war or something to that affect

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 08:01 PM

Only sometimes do our actual real lives touch the scope of the bigger universe. You can weave stories together to influence the overarching plot. Like you can have multiple groups engaging in a larger scale war that;s success or failure impacts the status of the nation. @Wes of StarArmy [SA] Is familiar with this.

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 08:01 PM

So all of this gets rather complicated as we all know; how do you make it seem simpler to your group members or new people?

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 08:01 PM

You can also win the battle but lose the overall war.

Uso 18-May-19 08:02 PM

That question might be better phrased as 'how do you onboard new players'. Having a well developed wiki is part of it, as is giving those players characters that have an excuse not to know everything.

enterDanement 18-May-19 08:02 PM

Well, for new people we have a training process through the academy for a week and once they pass, we'll assign them to a ship with their 1st or 2nd favored duty post

On average, we sim 150-200 posts per ship per month

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 08:04 PM

Sometimes, you have all the information but need to restructure it so it is easier to get through.

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 08:04 PM

so then yeah; onboarding... for a complex universe... best practices?

Uso 18-May-19 08:06 PM

Don't throw those players in to the deep end right off the bat. Have an excuse for their characters not to know everything and give them clearly-defined tasks in RP. There is a lot of hand-holding to start with but most people pick up on things pretty quickly.

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 08:06 PM

K.I.S.S.

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 08:07 PM

Hum; I only had a couple questions on this so I guess I will open up the floor to allow people ot talk about this topic as its so large and vast

Wes of StarArmy [SA] 18-May-19 08:08 PM

It's nice to give players an overview of the stuff they should know in the form of a New Players Guide and have a forum or a chat channel where they can easy ask questions.

enterDanement 18-May-19 08:10 PM

Oh very much so. We have tutorials we send out during training that can be found on our wiki.

Wes of StarArmy [SA] 18-May-19 08:10 PM

I haven't been able to do this yet, but I would love to have a roleplayed character building process where you start in a one-on-one RP and as you go, you do stuff like "As you get ready, you take a look at yourself in the mirror. What color is your hair?"

And as you're building this character you're also doing tutorial type stuff like practicing your pistol marksmanship.

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 08:13 PM

We sort of tried somethign similar with Kim as she is getting used to TNU

basically letting someone build their character fromt he ground up

as they play

allowing them to understand the universe as they go

I like that method quite a bit

Wes of StarArmy [SA] 18-May-19 08:14 PM

"You grab your sidearm, it's a Type 33 NSP, which is standard issue. It's bluish-gray with a black grip and and a display on the back. It's got a sticker with your name on the bottom. What's your name?"

I think it could be fun!

The idea would be to get people into RP in a truly instant, no red tape way.

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 08:14 PM

very true

Gallant 18-May-19 08:14 PM

One thing I did like about Star Army was that for a while it had a plot running which was essentially "Boot Camp" in one of his major factions.

It had a similar methodology as to what you suggested, as he says.

Uso 18-May-19 08:15 PM

That also feels like it'd just be responding to a writing prompt, which I don't think is super-appealing to a lot of people. They usually aren't showing up just to play with themselves.

Wes of StarArmy [SA] 18-May-19 08:15 PM

I miss that plot, too! I ran the first iteration of it and it was pretty cool! I'd like to do that again sometime after the YSS Eucharis is closed (I played Hanako for 11 years on that ship, it's time for her to move on)

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 08:16 PM

well thats why we write it organically and had her interact with other people

@[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim how did you like hte method we used to onboard your character

You sort of helped me develop the process to be honest

very little information was even required in your application as most of it was done in the posts

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 08:17 PM

I am still getting situated. Sanya still needs to be integrated into the rest of the crew but she's not involved with the crew yet but she doesn't speak their language.. really.

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 08:18 PM

She has really mainly interacted with my characters as I have gotten you going but yeah

the people people

*other people not people people

Well anyone have other questions; thoughts etc

Uso 18-May-19 08:21 PM

Sure, how much buy-in do you require from players before you let them start playing? The usual is just filling out and posting a character sheet but that seems to vary a lot between GMs.

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 08:22 PM

basically we require just a small application

we have some players whom have only ever RPed with us

so we dont expect a lot its mainly about the fun of everyone

[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim 18-May-19 08:26 PM

5 minutes to closing ceremonies. Thank you Josh!

Josh [TNU] 18-May-19 08:26 PM

no problem; I feel like I didn't do much

I wan tto write later if people are up for it though

escorts everyone outside and closes the door

Gallant 18-May-19 08:26 PM

❤