Panel is done. Next is empty. If people want to host a panel please let one of the administrators know or email email@example.com
And immediately as I said that we have another panel.
With that take it away
[IDF] Charles Star18-May-19 02:29 PM
hellsangel18-May-19 02:29 PM
[IDF] Charles Star18-May-19 02:29 PM
Sorry major connectivity issues!
I think we’ll have to end it there!
In 6th place with 1 pt: atsunari
In 5th place with 2 pts: Zech
4th place with 3 pts: shatners great hair
3rd place with 4 pts: beautiful night
And for the first time ever, we have a tie at the top!
With 6 points, hellsangel and blondie are co-championship!!!
hellsangel18-May-19 02:33 PM
yay for us nerds
[IDF] Charles Star18-May-19 02:33 PM
And that’s a wrap!
Until next time!
Josh [TNU]18-May-19 02:33 PM
I’m sorry sir but I’m gonna have to bill you for the extra two minutes
[IDF] Charles Star18-May-19 02:33 PM
Thanks for playing
Blondie18-May-19 02:33 PM
Thanks @[IDF] Charles Star
𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲18-May-19 02:33 PM
It's okay, Echo's Melody tells me they are running a bit late.
Josh [TNU]18-May-19 02:34 PM
That’s fine I think this session is empty after theirs so they can start whenever
MajTom18-May-19 02:34 PM
You forgot me!
Josh [TNU]18-May-19 02:34 PM
It’s okay tom We know that you’re the real winner here
Deleted User18-May-19 02:47 PM
I'm here now!
𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲18-May-19 02:48 PM
Good! You can start
Deleted User18-May-19 02:50 PM
Hey everyone! My name is Echo's Melody from the Roleplay wikia and I'm here to talk to you all about the relation between stories and roleplaying
Now, not all roleplays based on stories are completely accurate, and that's for a reason. Different fandoms, like the Wings of Fire fandom, use the stories as a basis, but don't usually use already made characters. Stories like mine on the other hand, are a completely new thing and was originally from a roleplay I did with a few of my friends.
The real difference though, is just you having fun with your characters and trying to make sure that your characters' story lines don't intersect or interact with an already existing character.
Does anyone have any questions? @everyone
Blondie18-May-19 02:56 PM
what do you mean by not intersecting or interacting? Wouldn't that be the point of it all?
Deleted User18-May-19 02:57 PM
I mean, you could technically, but you should have the authorization from the author of the story that you're trying to roleplay in. If so, you should probably show the author what you want the characters to do and they may allow it or not at all
Blondie18-May-19 02:58 PM
That makes sense now. I've steered away from RPs/Sims that have GM's so I had to get my brain back on that (edited)
Deleted User18-May-19 02:59 PM
Any other questions you want me to answer?
𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲18-May-19 02:59 PM
you should find other things to add btw, echo! you still got 30 minutes
Deleted User18-May-19 02:59 PM
I know ;w;
I'm just running off of questions now
Blondie18-May-19 03:00 PM
What do you think the main difference is between stories and roleplaying?
Deleted User18-May-19 03:01 PM
I'd say that the main difference is that you can always change the story later if you think something else should happen instead of what already happened. There are lots of similarities between the two, but that's probably the main difference
Blondie18-May-19 03:03 PM
What are other similarities?
Deleted User18-May-19 03:04 PM
You should make a detailed description of your characters. For example their abilities, scars, those kinds of things
Another is the timelines. You can have them running on the same timeline, but different areas(Which is a good thing to do if you ever want to rp in the same timeline of a story)
Blondie18-May-19 03:07 PM
The people I Rp with on the sites I'm on, we like details so we do all that, and usually have a plot goal for our characters and have fun getting them to that point. Our timelines are pretty much linear, but as you said, in different areas. And most times they don't intersect...which when they do it's also like you started, planned and approved by all involved.
I'm trying to think of other questions, but I'm coming up scatterbrained
Deleted User18-May-19 03:08 PM
Lol that's pretty much me every day though
Blondie18-May-19 03:10 PM
I used to RP in games/sims with GM's and Sim Leaders and all that kinda good stuff, but I've seen moved away from that for certain reasons. But I usually explain what I do as roleplaying .
It's been a GREAT stress relief
Deleted User18-May-19 03:11 PM
It really does get to be really fun and stress relieving. I sometimes roleplay with my friends and then use the rp for my story(With my friends permissions of course)
𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲18-May-19 03:11 PM
Echo, what is one of your favorite roleplays based off of a story?
Deleted User18-May-19 03:12 PM
𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲18-May-19 03:12 PM
Or vise versa
Deleted User18-May-19 03:13 PM
One of my favorite stories based off of a roleplay is my Trial of the Elements story. I did it for a few(I stopped after the second chapter because I hit a huge thing of writers block) and my friends and I had a blast with just coming up with the bad guys and heroines
𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲18-May-19 03:14 PM
Deleted User18-May-19 03:14 PM
It was fun for a while, but I started writing my Darkness Series(IDK what to call it for now XD). It was mainly based off of an album from Starset. The first book, Nebula of Shadows, like all the other books, takes place in space. I love writing scifi stories and doing scifi roleplays.
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 03:15 PM
We actually do the same thing for my webcomic, Song of Asteria! We actually used old roleplay as the basis of our comic script. But I don't see too much of a difference between storytelling and roleplay
Deleted User18-May-19 03:16 PM
There aren't many differences, tbh (edited)
Blondie18-May-19 03:17 PM
Oohhh knowing some differences sounds intriguing
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 03:17 PM
It's just with roleplaying, you have other people actively contributing to the writing process.
Deleted User18-May-19 03:18 PM
Blondie18-May-19 03:18 PM
Which is one reason why I love it
Kirby [SU]18-May-19 03:18 PM
Rp= choose your own adventure
reading a story= the adventure has been chosen and time to follow along
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 03:20 PM
I will get into this a bit more for the next panel BUT it's the perspective and unpredictablity of roleplay that makes it interesting. Since there is not always a clear end goal to what is going to happen, if you are collaboratively writing with another player in a non- GM/Player sort of relationship. You are just playing off one another and responding as that single character.
Blondie18-May-19 03:20 PM
Mecha meme18-May-19 03:21 PM
It's often much more interesting to be a player than GM
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 03:21 PM
With story writing, you should pick a perspective you wish to use to limit the reader's knowledge of the setting. Many modern stories chose a 1st person narrative to introduce the world and the protagonist, while in roleplaying you have every person's perspective. (edited)
Blondie18-May-19 03:21 PM
I preferring having a goal or a plot and then letting the character have fun with it
Deleted User18-May-19 03:21 PM
I prefer third person tbh if I'm not roleplaying with my specific character.
Blondie18-May-19 03:22 PM
When you have a good GM with a good story is freaking awesome, but I've not experience but a small percent of those
I alwys third person rp
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 03:24 PM
A lot of good writing techniques for story narrative go into roleplaying. Sometimes, having someone there to reign in the story and point the characters towards the plot can be helpful. I know that in my normal roleplaying groups when I am not the GM, we get sidetracked from the mission all the time and into hijinks.
Deleted User18-May-19 03:25 PM
Hey! XD This is supposed to be my panel! You should be asking me the questions
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 03:26 PM
Just trying to fill the space. So the question from Blondie was "what are the differences between Storytelling and Roleplaying?"
Blondie18-May-19 03:26 PM
Deleted User18-May-19 03:26 PM
Well, another difference is that of the actual characters
There could be millions of characters, but you only know of the ones that the author has given to you
In roleplay, you can make up the characters you want to interact with and use them
Blondie18-May-19 03:29 PM
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 03:29 PM
Any closing thoughts before we shift to the next panel?
Blondie18-May-19 03:30 PM
𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲18-May-19 03:31 PM
Thank you Echo! Onto the next panel ^^
Deleted User18-May-19 03:31 PM
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 03:32 PM
Good morning and afternoon from the land of ALOHA! I am Kim from Shattered Universe Media Group an Ascension Sims! I will be taking over for Tony's Panel since he had a family emergency!
Blondie18-May-19 03:32 PM
Thank you, Kim!
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 03:34 PM
Just a little bit about me, I have been roleplaying online since 2000 and I have been roleplaying through traditional tabletop since 1992. I am one of the setting writers and storytellers for Shattered Universe but I am a Star Army Alumni since around 2003, my first online RP community as a GM was Menzai Battlefield Academy in 2000.
My topic today is Successful Gamemastering and Storytelling and Skills .
The Intro On The New Dlc4 Like Comment And Subscribe
Mecha meme18-May-19 03:35 PM
I punch the initiative.
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 03:36 PM
One of the most important things I feel to consider regarding successful gamermastering is making the compromise between the story you are telling and the story that your players want to tell. This should ideally, be the same thing but it's not always!
I have seen what happens when the GM plans a deep and insightful story with riddles and diplomacy but the party... the party... well... are.. MURDER HOBOS!
Beautiful Night18-May-19 03:37 PM
Lol. plans never survive contact with the enemy.
I mean players
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 03:40 PM
Right! There is some fun to be had in a Splatterpunk (mindless killing) sort of story if you are doing light roleplaying on a table top but for online roleplay... it well.. can be kind of dull depending on how it is written. If it feels like there is no challenge or threat to the players, it's just too easy. Then it's boring to some of your players that want to overcome the adversary but then it's fun to the players that just want to stick the bad guy with the pointy end.
I like to talk to all of my players at the formation of a roleplaying campaign to figure out what it is that they want to play. When we create their characters and talk to them, we discover their intentions and then in the first session of actual roleplay, I get a clearer idea of how they play those concepts. Sometimes, what the character creates and what they actually play are not the same!
Blondie18-May-19 03:43 PM
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 03:43 PM
Blondie18-May-19 03:44 PM
all good examples
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 03:45 PM
You have to firmly establish the expectations of the players versus the reality of the players and build from there to help them achieve what they are ultimately going for in the story. If the players and the characters have no emotional stake in the outcome of the story, they are going to break it.
Chistery18-May-19 03:45 PM
@[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim Oh crap! that's part of my talk, too! I'd better be really interesting!
and you're right, of course
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 03:45 PM
I won't go into that too much. Just hittign wave tops since they all go together.
So this track primarily followed the Governors character, and played throughout his ventures. It has a really disturbing/dark tone which is perfect for those...
There are couple of ways to do this, using traditional story structures! There was a wonderful panel during FallFest by @Beautiful Night about 3 act story structure.
Beautiful Night18-May-19 03:49 PM
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 03:50 PM
The most common beginning storyline for new campaigns is usually modelled after the "Hero's journey". Where character is a normal person until BAD THINGS HAPPEN or they are the CHOSEN ONE. Then they most venture forward into the great unknown to become strong enough to conquer the great evil! The quest begins. But as the storyteller you need to fill the void around your players if they don't have the support they need to understand the world or the skills they need to defeat the great evil. This also means needs you needs to have some sort of direction and plan for them to follow.
Beautiful Night18-May-19 03:51 PM
i call that elmore leonard vs George R R Martin ;p
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 03:52 PM
The goal is to stick the players on that they enjoy but still give them enough options that they don't think they've been railroaded.
I see more stories fall into the ADHD storytelling when the players decide to go off and false the false leads or accept every side quest and then forget what they were doing in the first place.
What are everyone's favorite ways to plan a campaign?
I personally enjoy having a rough idea then let the players paranoia/ideas build onto it
Beautiful Night18-May-19 03:57 PM
For online I tend to ask the players to throw ideas at me, see what the themes are, then build from there.
the actual shape varies depending on palyers
Kirby [SU]18-May-19 03:58 PM
granted i don't tell them that they did until later but, like when i was stage directing, an actors choice of how to do something can give you an awesome idea on a particular scene you hadn't thought of before
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 04:00 PM
I also like to do a rough outline and then improvise as we go to make it challenging, interesting, and get them invested in the NPCs and the quest. If the players don't care abut the dying poisoned NPC or there actually isn't a consideration that there will be a consequence to failing the mission / quest, there is a lack of chance that they will try to stay focused.
Beautiful Night18-May-19 04:00 PM
exactly. ten brains are better than one
Blondie18-May-19 04:01 PM
Chistery18-May-19 04:01 PM
I planned out a pretty specific story, but left lots of room for players to improvise. I gave them guidlines to improvise within and left some surprises. That pretty much blew up in my face. (edited)
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 04:01 PM
I think this chart actually helps visualize the wants of the players. Finding a balance between everyone and the story can be tricky. But I do find that having an inciting incident of equal suck for everyone can unite the party and push them forward to fight.
The hardest thing to do can be motivating the players to want to write. I think that concept comes down the Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
We all enjoy writing and roleplaying as a hobby. The struggles of the characters can help us understand or cope with our own issues. Sometimes, in our excitement to tell a good story and have fun, that people have things going on and we lose site of their needs.
Most of what we deal with in roleplaying is at the top of the hierarchy. We provide a sense of belonging by being a part of community. We help esteem by complimenting people on their roleplaying, acknowledging their characters and encouraging them to improve!
Blondie18-May-19 04:09 PM
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 04:09 PM
It's not just management or supervision, it is also in part cheerleading and being a guidance counselor. People have issues that spill over into roleplay all the time.
What do you as players and GMs find to be the most successive ways to encourage your players to be a part of the story? (edited)
Blondie18-May-19 04:11 PM
This is making complete sense for a past sim, for me!
personally, I like the building of character relationships. Whether it be friends, lovers, or enemies
Beautiful Night18-May-19 04:12 PM
I think it needs a personal link. Something that makes their characters stars. I won't say I'm the best at making it happen, but I think thats usually the best way in. Everyone wants their 15 minutes being awesome
Blondie18-May-19 04:14 PM
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 04:14 PM
I typically will use my NPCs to get the characters and players invested in what happens to them. Since they are fighting and struggling alongside the players, if them being injured or dying doesn't matter, then I feel like I haven't written them well.
Blondie18-May-19 04:14 PM
utliziing character's backstory/history
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 04:15 PM
I think incorporating a personal redemption arc or exploring a backstory is a great way to get people invested into their fellow characters.
The stakes don't always need to be life or death. It could just be whether or not your friend is able to face down their own fears and insecurities. Or stand up to that abusive Shadow in their past and attempt to move on with their life.
Stephen Hunter UK18-May-19 04:18 PM
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 04:20 PM
I have seen players get so invested into the story that they rage quit when they say another PC died in a JP that they missed. They were so angry that they missed the session. The stakes and emotions were high. The other player had accepted the outcome gracefully but the others were hit with that devastation. But it is always tricky to subvert the expectations to build a good story by killing a character or having a face turn.
Well, it looks like my time is almost up! Any last thoughts or comments?
Josh [TNU]18-May-19 04:23 PM
Any panels going to need an overflow?
Beautiful Night18-May-19 04:23 PM
how do you handle failure? what happens in the PCs royally screw up? Do you have any tips for letting them fail vs them wanting to win?
Ryker18-May-19 04:23 PM
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 04:24 PM
There does need to be consequences. If they fail, you have to help them find a way to recover from it. If they lose the battle, recovery from that failure can led to a greater reward when they succeed.
Stephen Hunter UK18-May-19 04:25 PM
Failure is always an option
Beautiful Night18-May-19 04:25 PM
not that they always like it
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 04:25 PM
The importance of learning from your mistakes can be more powerful of an arc than winning. Characters can develop and grow from it.
Ryker18-May-19 04:25 PM
Stephen Hunter UK18-May-19 04:25 PM
And if they die, they die.
Blondie18-May-19 04:26 PM
Characaters needs deveopment, as well
Ryker18-May-19 04:26 PM
Stephen Hunter UK18-May-19 04:26 PM
That can lead to great RP in itself
But if you are going to kill off characters, make it clear beforehand
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 04:27 PM
If you are using death as a consequence of failure, the players to need to be aware of it so that can help them make smart choices in their arc. It means that sacrificing your life to save your crew will have meaning. You lose that meaning with resurrection or a twist survival that doesn't make sense. People will feel cheated.
Stephen Hunter UK18-May-19 04:28 PM
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 04:29 PM
I like to review screenwriting commentaries for suggestions for improving my storytelling! There are lots of great resources. I will drop a couple of links before I turn the room over!
Thank you for your time, Kim! (And thank you for filling in for Tony!) onto the next panel.
Jitterbug18-May-19 04:30 PM
Am I ok to take over now? Or should I wait?
𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲18-May-19 04:30 PM
You have the floor.
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 04:30 PM
Ryker18-May-19 04:30 PM
Josh [TNU]18-May-19 04:30 PM
I was just about to ask to move the overflow
Ryker18-May-19 04:31 PM
no floor here
𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲18-May-19 04:31 PM
Jitterbug18-May-19 04:31 PM
Hello guys, this is writing bug from OW, and I will be talking about sci fi worldbuilding
I firstly want to talk about the topic of building the planet
The first, and biggest rule is use your imagination
This means that whatever sort of planet you can imagine, make it
The second rule on this is to limit the extremes of your imagination
This means that if you make the planet, make sure it makes sense. Sometimes, people make floating islands, or cities of molten lava. If you do go to these extremes, it is best to provide a basic support to this.
I have an example to share, I made a planet where the average temperate is just below boiling. To counter this, I provided the organisms with cliffs and caves to hide under, and since plants would die in the heat, I allowed the animals to photosynthesize
Since I want you all to be involved, I want to hear what you feel about worldbuilding before I continue
Stephen Hunter UK18-May-19 04:39 PM
Earth-like worlds are easiest, but you can have a wide range in that
Remember there is no 'universal' climate for any 'Class M'
Jitterbug18-May-19 04:40 PM
True, I feel that it is best for a planet to have at least two environments, something to balance the extremes.
I made another planet with a grassland, but to counter this, I also added jungle islands, which also allowed two alien races to develop here.
Of course, if you want less or more, be my guest, it adds to the uniqueness of the world
Another issue with planets, is making them unique... Most of the time, the planets are simple, such as water planets or an earth-like planet.
To counter this, I propose to myself, each planet I create, I create one unique attribute.
Wonder_Wombat18-May-19 04:43 PM
Also with world building I find it beneficial to look at other similar creations that people have made just to be sure you aren't unintentionally copying something. Like if you have a snow planet reference Hoth and others from media, roleplays, etc. With this comes new ideas as well to further separate them.
Jitterbug18-May-19 04:44 PM
Very true, (wassup Caribou )
I was inspired by films as well, if you have seen Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets, they provide a diversity of aliens in one location.
Each of them had a different culture
And back to my uniqueness, you can make the aliens unique, the creatures, and the planet.
For example, I was working on a swamp planet meant to be creature based, when I felt it was too simple. I decided to create something I have never seen before
Airbog. A mulch algae that floats with helium bubbles, and sustains flying herbivores with food, and the animals with a habitat above a habitat
This allowed me to expand on the world, adding unique creatures, seasons, and niches
That is all I want to talk about on the planets themselves at this moment.
If anyone has a planet question, I will gladly answer, if not than I will talk about alien species
Stephen Hunter UK18-May-19 04:49 PM
Do you make a map?
Jitterbug18-May-19 04:50 PM
Its optional, I struggle with a map of a alien planet, simply because of planet shaping. I never really tried it though
Instead, I list the attributes, and assign NSEW directions to them
Wes of StarArmy [SA]18-May-19 04:50 PM
Not to be confused with NSFW directions!
Stephen Hunter UK18-May-19 04:50 PM
Most planets will be spheroid
Above 200km in size
Jitterbug18-May-19 04:51 PM
Yeah, although a small planet is possible depending on the size of organisms living there.
It also limits population size, and sometimes sophistication of the species
Stephen Hunter UK18-May-19 04:51 PM
Anyway, I have to heard off for an RP
Jitterbug18-May-19 04:52 PM
Sounds good my friend, thanks for listening here
Stephen Hunter UK18-May-19 04:52 PM
Thanks for doing this talk
Jitterbug18-May-19 04:52 PM
Anyways, that brought me to my next point, alien species
Every alien species is unique, but they must be dependant on their origin planet
A grassland alien will have long legs, and be quick on their feet
A water alien will have gills, and will require to be in contact with water
And cavern aliens will need to either have good night vision, or strong senses
For example, I made a small dwarf water planet, which was abundant with gold and rare metals, but the aliens were undersophisticated
The shrimp like aliens were constantly harassed by more developed aliens, who used the planet for its metals.
Wonder_Wombat18-May-19 04:57 PM
Would you say they were passive?
Jitterbug18-May-19 04:57 PM
This can also effect the alien, in a roleplay on Ongoing worlds, a member of a game created a race of ape people who praised crashed ships as gods
(For WC) They were very passive, especially since they were six inches tall... lol
They would often try to intimidate these newfound strangers, but since they were only in a stone age development, the attempts would be unsuccessful
As before, by praising these ships, it shifted the culture of the aliens
I want to state one more thing before moving onto the third topic.
This will draw into the next topic
It is somewhat important to have a related creature species, evolutionary issues are often ignores in Sci-Fi, but they are important in making a realistic planet.
In my mini shrimp planet, there were many crustacean like aliens with similarities, and on my super heat planet, the four armed aliens developed from carnivorous six limbed predators.
That is all I want to talk about on Alien Species, if you have any questions, ask away
Since no one has any questions, I would like to move on to the final topic, Alien Creatures
I find enjoyment in creating creatures, it allows you to create with wacky concepts that you couldn't do otherwise
Back to my floating bog planet, I created a plethora of unique ground and flying creatures, and with the low gravity level, I was able to create larger and heavier herbivores and fliers to inhabit the planet
But I also created species that were related
For example, I had a diversity of different walking carnivorous fish, which ran after its prey through the swampy landscape
Which also brings me to a small topic, creature evolution,
Since earth has a vast diversity of fauna, I feel that although there can be a diversity, that there should be a connection between certain groups.
I created a group of animals known as Lilocy's, which filled different niches in the environment, and I was able to correlate their evolution to develop the world.
So to conclude, I want to thank you all for listening, and if you have any questions, ask away
Jitterbug18-May-19 05:22 PM
Since there are no questions, I would like to thank you for listening, and I wish you all a wonderful day.
Wes of StarArmy [SA]18-May-19 05:31 PM
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 06:25 PM
Next panel begins in 5 minutes: Creating an Alien Language @enterDanement - Starbase 118)
enterDanement18-May-19 06:25 PM
Hey everyone! I write for UFOP Starbase 118 and I sim a Denobulan science officer named German Galven. One of his specialties is Xenobiologist which means more or less learning about new species!
When creating a new species, there's a lot to take in account like their alien language! Also there's some lesser known species like Denobulan that have a limited knowledge about their language. How do you take in account for their languages and build up on it?
Also expanding more of it.
I like to start by learning what's already out there. Like on Memory Alpha or elsewhere. Take for example the scene in ENT where Ensign Sato is speaking to Phlox in Denobulan or at least trying to
Is there anyone that has created a new species or taken a species already in canon that didn't have much to do with their language and then built more up on it?
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 06:36 PM
enterDanement18-May-19 06:37 PM
You there! Yes?
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 06:37 PM
Me here, yes, I have tried to do that once upon a time
enterDanement18-May-19 06:37 PM
And what did you do to start building up on the language and which species?
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 06:38 PM
Twas Andorian, I tried to find if there was already some of their language around. I did not find much
enterDanement18-May-19 06:39 PM
Right, your favorite Andorian is Shran. Did you find some way to expand on it?
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 06:40 PM
I found a set of incredibly complex grammar rules which seemed to contradict themselves at times. They were from an old RPG book
enterDanement18-May-19 06:41 PM
Yeah, it gets a little frustrating at times. Even more so when my PC's writings is in some form of alien hieroglyphics
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 06:41 PM
GinaC18-May-19 06:42 PM
It definitely makes it more difficult when you're starting completely from scratch.
We started a race called the malacosladae. We had no linguistic context for them
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 06:42 PM
I've also come to the conclusion that Andorian uses certain sounds very frequently, while other seem to be totally absent
enterDanement18-May-19 06:42 PM
I can't find anything about Al-Leyans anywhere other than our wiki. Is that a species 118 made?
Mimi18-May-19 06:43 PM
oooh i should probably stick my nose into this one as i created a species of my own and developed a language for them too
enterDanement18-May-19 06:43 PM
What kind of species?
Mimi18-May-19 06:45 PM
My character Mimi is essentially a catgirl, her species are called the Nekomi. and yes that is just a slightly shortened version of the term nekomimi. and indirectly where i got her name from too
enterDanement18-May-19 06:45 PM
Different from Caitians?
Mimi18-May-19 06:45 PM
enterDanement18-May-19 06:46 PM
Cool! And how did you develop their language and could you give an example?
I also was wondering if anyone takes in account of dialect and different speech patterns like if they live on a different part of the world
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 06:48 PM
Yes I have
enterDanement18-May-19 06:48 PM
Mimi18-May-19 06:48 PM
i've been gradually developing it over a long time but mostly it's copied from Basque and several other relatively obscure languages. altered with a few regular things like a certain way of doing the plural of the word
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 06:49 PM
Yup, I've mentioned a few times that Jhyrazhao speaks Aenar, a separate language from Andorian. I've also mentioned eastern and western continental dialects
enterDanement18-May-19 06:49 PM
Yeah, that's what I did for Denobulans because Phlox said there's little to no transitive verbs, so I basically mesh some of our languages and mix that with Klingon
Ah yeah because she's half Denobulan/half Andorian right @Andorian at Heart
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 06:50 PM
No, that is Ethrixa, Jhyrazhao is full Aenar
enterDanement18-May-19 06:50 PM
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 06:51 PM
GinaC18-May-19 06:51 PM
With the al leyan species we actually used Esperanto as a base language. That's a mixture of Spanish and one or two of the other romantic languages
Mimi18-May-19 06:51 PM
several of the characters on the sim i play Mimi on are interested in the language, she's even teaching one of them the language.
so each of the jp's we do i usually have to develop several new words
that haven't came up in previous posts. it then gets added to my list of words and phrases
enterDanement18-May-19 06:52 PM
Yeah once I get into shoreleave I'll teach people different languages
Mimi18-May-19 06:52 PM
so i have consistency in the words and their translations.
enterDanement18-May-19 06:53 PM
That's really good to have consistency and continuity!
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 06:54 PM
I have plans to develop the Andorian language further using regional differences based on a map that I have which I am apparently not allowed to post an image of
enterDanement18-May-19 06:55 PM
So with those different regions on the map, what are your plans with the language?
Is it like how Terrans talk in different languages?
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 06:57 PM
The map shows Andoria with 2 major continents, an eastern and western, connected by a narrow land bridge. The eastern and western dialects will be every different, but as you travel across the language slowly changes. The language spoken in the area of the land bridge would share similarities with both the eastern and western.
enterDanement18-May-19 06:58 PM
Similar to what Pangaea was like or at least in theory
Here's what some of our writers expanded Denobula to look like
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:00 PM
The smaller island was uninhabited, right?
enterDanement18-May-19 07:00 PM
Unfortunately, the land mass on the right... yes lol
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:00 PM
Twas a Nuclear winter, right?
enterDanement18-May-19 07:01 PM
Yes, I believe so. @Lt. Pholin Duyzer [SB118]
Mimi18-May-19 07:02 PM
The Nekomi are an interesting bunch, their planet is almost entirely water apart from 1 pretty big continent and a load of really small islands. practically all the nekomi live on the big continent in 12 big cities, the small islands are mostly uninhabited and the ones that are are used mostly to exile prisoners that won't rehabilitate.
theres not much dialtect change between the cities.
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:02 PM
Hmmm...my Andorian map shows no Islands...
GinaC18-May-19 07:02 PM
Especially when you have species where multiple regions could result in multiple dialects of a language, I feel they're definitely does need to be some sort of Link or commonality with them
Mimi18-May-19 07:03 PM
@Andorian at Heart i'm referring to the custom species i mentioned earlier
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:03 PM
I know, I'm speculating about my Andorian language based on what you said
Mimi18-May-19 07:04 PM
enterDanement18-May-19 07:04 PM
So the prisoners refuse to rehabilitate or the government refuses?
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:06 PM
On my Andorian map there are 11 regions in larger text. Kul'Tan, Jonava, Thara, etc. I'm thinking each will have its own language/variation on a main language. Resulting in 12 total languages on the planet when you include the Aenar
Mimi18-May-19 07:06 PM
the prisoners, every every means is exhausted they are exiled to the islands. the islands are far enough away from eachother and the mainland that even the best nekomi swimmer couldnt make it (not that many can swim anyway) and they're monitored so they cant escape anyway.
enterDanement18-May-19 07:08 PM
So this doesn't pertain to language, but when creating your own species or continuing on a lesser known one, how do you develop their culture, also the foods they eat, etc..? (edited)
Mimi18-May-19 07:09 PM
in my case, following their cat based origines, the Nekomi are obligate carnivores so they have to eat meat regular. they can tolerate some other foods in fairly limited amounts.
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:09 PM
Well mister Galven, my dream is to one day make a comprehensive collection of Andorian culture, language, customs, everything. I've already got some things from Alpha canon, and more from Beta canon. I'm slowly expanding on it
enterDanement18-May-19 07:10 PM
lol well glad to hear it! You may want to collab with my chief of security on that. Mr. Tel-ar!
Mimi18-May-19 07:10 PM
as for what they eat more specifically, given their world is mostly water, lots and lots of fish based stuff
enterDanement18-May-19 07:10 PM
what about milk?
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:11 PM
One thing I have found, it that the nest source for getting a look at Andorian language sounds/forms, is from Andorian names. Based on what I've seen there are certain sounds that are very rarely used. I'll see if I can find where I wrote that down...
enterDanement18-May-19 07:11 PM
@Mimi Is the fish different from Earth's fish?
@Andorian at Heart Oh please do!
Mimi18-May-19 07:13 PM
there are things that follow broadly similar to earth sealife.
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:13 PM
'f' and 'ph' sounds are one that I can remember, but I cannot seem to find my list and it makes me sad
enterDanement18-May-19 07:14 PM
Well, hopefully one day you'll be able to find it
So with 15 minutes left, is there anything else anyone would like to talk about referring to alien language. Questions? Comments?
Concerns? Diabolical plotting? (edited)
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:15 PM
Limited 'G' and 'B' sounds is another I can remember
Andorian also seems to use lots of 'S' and 'Th' sounds
theres a species similar to a whale called the ceatus. who are caught in limited and strictly monitored numbers for food and their other resources
like their teeth which are primarily used in a peice of jewellry that's part of the nekomi marriage ritual
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:18 PM
Oh, that's neat. I just found a note of mine saying that according to a certain source Andorians find Salt to be that same as how humans taste Spices
I'm gonna have to use that IC
enterDanement18-May-19 07:18 PM
So basically whales on their planet are used for other things as well as eating? (edited)
Mimi18-May-19 07:19 PM
yep, they're not just going to pull their teeth out or chop their fins off and throw them back into the ocean
unlike some people..
enterDanement18-May-19 07:19 PM
Mimi18-May-19 07:20 PM
it's somewhat ironic that i have all this information about the Nekomi and their homeworld, yet Mimi has never been there
and doesnt even know where it is
enterDanement18-May-19 07:21 PM
I'm glad you came over and explained as much as you could about your well developed species! Any more tidbits such as that one? (edited)
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:21 PM
Sure, Andorian antennae are apparently a continuation of the sinus
Mimi18-May-19 07:21 PM
GinaC18-May-19 07:21 PM
Earlier it was mentioned that culture and other aspects are not really related to language, but I feel they are. It helps to understand the cultural Traditions When developing a language. It gives you an idea of who the race is
enterDanement18-May-19 07:22 PM
I think I was more asking about what other things have people expanded on
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:22 PM
Mimi18-May-19 07:22 PM
If you're going to make a custom species, really think about it before you start writing.
enterDanement18-May-19 07:22 PM
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:23 PM
I'm working on expanding/figuring out how Aenar see. Cos they are blind (their eyes don't work), and yet Canon say they can see in a different way
Mimi18-May-19 07:23 PM
and write EVERYTHING down. even minor notes about the most random subject related to them, eventually you'll think about it a little more and devlop it some more
John Yicks18-May-19 07:23 PM
enterDanement18-May-19 07:23 PM
Although, there are some things that you didn't even realize was apart of the species until later on. Character development also works as you move forward
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:23 PM
We've come to the conclusion its not echolocation
John Yicks18-May-19 07:24 PM
I would suggest looking into all the senses. Humans have more than 5, they just have 5 primary senses.
enterDanement18-May-19 07:25 PM
Very true. There's a few YouTube videos about that
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:25 PM
Aenar have 5 senses, with sight replaced by telepathy
I'm also tempted to place Andorian Antennae into a 6th sense category, cos according to my research they are super sensitive
enterDanement18-May-19 07:26 PM
Yes because when Tel-ar was injured and broke his antennae, he could barely function
John Yicks18-May-19 07:26 PM
But do they only have 5 senses? Can they sense where their extremities are in relation to their head?
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:26 PM
I'm not sure
All things to think about
enterDanement18-May-19 07:27 PM
Exactly! that's why it's so fun to build more up on your species
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:27 PM
Galven, we saw in ENT that when Shran lost an antennae he was at a large disadvantage, off balance quite often
enterDanement18-May-19 07:28 PM
Well, it seems that my time is almost up. If there's nothing else anyone would like to add, I'll give the floor to the next panelist
John Yicks18-May-19 07:28 PM
I should get ready for my panel.
enterDanement18-May-19 07:28 PM
Andorian at Heart18-May-19 07:29 PM
Thank you for this Galven, it has been a good discussion!
John Yicks18-May-19 07:29 PM
Great job Galven, although I only saw the last bit. I have quite the act to follow.
enterDanement18-May-19 07:29 PM
No problem and thank you both and also @Mimi for contributing! (edited)
Sp562851418-May-19 07:30 PM
@enterDanement really interesting
John Yicks18-May-19 07:30 PM
So, I actually have an entire speech written up, I'm going to wait for about five minutes before I post it just to give people time to make the decision between my panel and the other panel.
𝓪𝓴𝓾𝓶𝓲18-May-19 07:30 PM
Thank you Galven! Now without further ado, John Yicks. :)
John Yicks18-May-19 07:30 PM
In the mean time, I will give a bit of a forewarning.
In my panel, I will likely say some things that will make some defensive. I'm approaching a topic most people aren't used to being approached, and I am writing it in a way that can switch the perspective. How to deal with problem players.
Hence the name "How to get everyone out alive, even the bad guy." I will probably seem like an ass. I will probably seem like a know it all, and I can assure you I have written most of this in my speech so you will probably read this twice.
If there are spelling or grammar mistakes I apologize. I will admit, I almost know 1 language, so I consider that in of itself a success.
I will be posting the entire thing all at once. That way we can get right into Q&A without worrying about me not getting everything out.
Now, this panel is going to be directed more towards Staff of websites. You’re the leaders of your communities, and the tricks I will touch on here will be invaluable to maintaining a happy, healthy community where no one is resentful in my humble opinion. I’m going to sound like an ass quite often. I hope I don’t offend anyone. These are tricks you can use in any situation you find yourself in when dealing with members of your community. That doesn’t mean you can’t learn to do these things as a player, resolving conflicts without having to bring staff into the issue
I strongly suggest you read this through fully. Twice even, if you’re willing to give me that time. If you have questions. If you disagree, write down your thoughts in the moment, and then keep reading. If your question isn’t answered by the end, ask and I will do my best to clarify. I would appreciate if you would all give this a solid shot. I made this because I have a vision, and that vision will come to life faster if we all work together. I hope you can agree with that vision.
Now, I want to make some statements. These are what I personally believe to be the two truths of being a staff member.
“As a member of the staff, it is my job to maintain the health of this website second, only to maintaining the health of this community, to ensure that everyone is happy, content, and feel respected. To ensure that everyone is heard, understood, and is always given a fair chance in the moment, regardless of past infractions. Because without the community, the website has nothing.”
“It is not my job to control the thoughts and actions of my community by use of my authority over them or to utilize my authority at anytime, unless every other course of action has been taken, and a player is proving, after all other options have been exhausted, that they have no compassion, empathy, or basic respect for the community, beyond the shadow of a doubt, and that up until that has been proven, I shall treat that player with Dignity, Respect, and I will not hold their past against them, because people aren’t perfect.”
Now, in a perfect world, Staff would never have to do anything but work on the website. There would be no problems. Though, that is not the human condition. There will be conflict, it’s inevitable, it has to be accepted, and your last course of action should be to use your authority on a player because they are involved in a conflict. Now, there are exceptions to that. Trolls. There’s your exception.
So first. What does a player want? Why do players cause problems? Very rarely, do you have a player causing problems that can’t be solved. Solving problems isn’t a battle. It isn’t a Me vs You. It isn’t an “I’m Right, Your Wrong.” It should never be a battle for dominance, especially when you have the dominant position, which all staff members of a website have in their sphere of influence.
It should be a journey of discovery. You should stop talking. You should start listening. You need to put that voice in your head coming up with arguments to their points, to the side, and practice the one key trick to getting someone to work with you. Empathy. Now don’t get me confused. Empathy isn’t sympathy. You don’t need to agree with the person your talking to, to be empathetic. You could think they are a total wack job. You can still be Empathetic.
Take a moment and really listen to their position. Assume every time you interact with a player, they’re afraid. They may not feel it. They may not know it. But when you approach someone, and you want something to happen, the part of that persons brain that controls fear activates, and you can’t talk to them until you turn that fear off. How do you do that.
Do an accusation audit. Take everything they could accuse you of doing, of being, and mention it. Don’t deny it.
I know it seems like we don’t listen.
I know it seems like I’m just here to cause problems
I know it seems like I’m just trying to get my way.
These automatically identify an accusation, and it is crucial you say it before they do. If you say it before they do, you calm them down. They relax. Suddenly that elephant in the room doesn’t seem so intimidating. So many people think, saying this is damning. Saying this can be used against you, that you’re admitting something, but it doesn’t do that. It is simply you acknowledging the other persons concerns, before they do. They’re probably thinking it, especially if you’ve had bad dealings with them before. Just saying these things will give you a better position. You have taken the first step to tactical empathy.
Let these things hang. Don’t deny it. The elephant gets more obvious when it’s denied. “There ain’t no elephant in this room,” Uh, yeah there is, I’m looking at it. The funny part is, if you do it, they will want to reassure you. It’s instinct if they actually want to work with you to reassure you that “No, I don’t think any of that” and either they will say it, or they will think it, and you will be even better off about it. At worst, there isn’t much worse you can do, and you come of as honest.
Now the next step. Actually listening to what they say. You would be shocked by what people are willing to put up with, if they are just listened too. Because if they feel listened too, they feel respected. If they feel respected, they will be more understanding of the outcome. If they are more understanding about the outcome, they aren’t angry at you, and you’ve maintained the relationship. So before you give your verdict, before you make your pitch, get the person you’re talking to, to say “That’s Right.” Not your right, That’s Right. Those are your magical words. Hearing that means the person saying it knows they’ve been listened too. They feel like they have been listened too, and it’s important that whatever you say you keep in mind, because if you turn on it, game over. They feel cheated, lied too and wronged, and you’re in a worse position than when you started.
How do you get “That’s Right”
Effective Pauses. Silence is powerful, don’t assume you need to respond right away. The last thing you need to do when you want someone to feel listened too, is to respond right away.
Be Present. Don’t have dead air. If there is a pause in what they are saying over text, use some simple phrase to let them know you’re still there. Almost everyone does this in vocal conversations. Yes, Okay, Uh-huh. This tells them they have your full attention, and if there is a problem, they should have your full attention. Don’t half ass it. Don’t be solving these problems while you’re supposed to be, or actively doing something else.
Mirror. Don’t argue. If you want to give a meaningful response, start with the last three words, or the most important 2 or 3 words they said.
Label Emotions. Give the person you are talking to a label for what they are feeling and validate it.
Paraphrase. Every time they touch on a new possible emotion, concern, point, paraphrase what they said. Especially if it’s a lot of information to take in. If you don’t have enough information to paraphrase, the person hasn’t opened up too you yet. You need to figure out why, and audit it.
Summarize. When you are positive they have exhausted their points, their concerns, their side, Summarize it. A good summary is re-articulating the meaning of what is said, plus the acknowledgment of the emotions underlying that meaning. Paraphrasing, and Labelling equal a good Summary, only on a larger scale. If you’re getting big walls of text, just summarize all of it. Make sure you never make your summary sound definitive, you should always leave room for them to correct you. End with “Am I right?, am I close?,” or some other iteration. If you’re confident, ask. Is that right? You need to listen and repeat the “World according to the player” even if it sounds like nonsense. Because if you give a good summary, you will get a “That’s Right.”
Remember that “That’s Right” may not be those exact words. It will always be an affirmative charged with emotions though.
Then you need to figure out what they need.
Listen to the person, what they have to say, and summarize. What they are asking for isn’t what they want. You need to read between the lines. We are creatives, and it’s not our work that we want recognized. We want to be recognized. We want to be given that moment. We want to feel important. Everyone wants to feel important. Read between the lines of what they are saying, find the underlying concerns, the underlying problems, the insecurities, and voice them.
“Sounds like you don’t really feel appreciated”
“Sounds like you feel you aren’t getting anywhere”
“Sounds like you feel no one cares”
Don’t worry if they come at you with “Don’t tell me how I feel” you can back up onto “Hey, I didn’t say that was how it was, that’s just how it seems” get them talking. You voice their concerns, they’ll start talking. You show you’re making an effort to understand how they are feeling, they’ll start talking. They’ll vomit up all the information you could ever want about their perspective and it will tell you so much. All of this information tells you the minimum they need to make a deal. The minimum they need to agree with you happily. All of this information are tools for you to use to avoid conflict and have a good relationship. Then work at fulfilling those needs. Find the minimum they need to agree with the virdict, and fulfill it, and you’d be shocked as to how much easier life is, and how much happier people are.
Empathy is key here. Being the staff of a website isn’t about control. It’s about providing a service. You need to provide value to your players, and if you aren’t providing value to them, then they won’t want to give you value. You need to provide value in a way that keeps everyone happy, which means figuring out the minimum need of a player is a crucial skill to keep them happy on your website, instead of just dealing with it. Do this with every player, and you’d be shocked by how little you have to change to make them happy. Maybe that guy who wants the elder dragon pet and won’t let it go, or the super gun, or that faction, or whatever doesn’t need it. Maybe, their brain is subconsciously thinking that whatever that thing they are after is, will fulfill that need of theirs they aren’t aware of. Find that need and fulfill it. It will almost never be hard. I can promise you, every single time they hold onto something and they refuse to let it go, they fight tooth and nail, there is something more there. They feel inadequate.
Now, a lot of people might be reading this and thinking “Wow, this sounds super manipulative” but think about it. Manipulation, is getting someone to do what you want without having to do anything for them. You get your way, and they get nothing. Manipulating is short term, because they will realize they have been robbed and swindled and lied too soon enough, and that will be a problem. With this, you are giving the other party what they want, on a deeper level. You are giving them what they NEED, because while they may want something, they don’t need it, and they may need something they don’t even realize they want.
ut what about Player on Player conflict. That’s a little different, but all the same rules apply. Sometimes that conflict is obvious, you can see it. If you can see it, you should put it on your to do list to resolve it. And put it up there high. You need to do more than tell the players to grow up and start working together. Never, ever, invalidate a players emotions. Take everything from above, apply it to each player. Make sure they feel like they can trust you, and that you won’t do them harm. There is no such thing as “This player is just causing problems.” There is something there.
Now, best case senario. The conflict hasn’t gotten to a point where these two players speaking with each other is impossible without it breaking into a shouting match. Without devolving into a useless battle of me vs you. If that’s the case, you can moderate a conversation. Have them in a conversation, and lay down some ground rules. They don’t send a message unless you give the go ahead. They will voice their issues, and while they do that, you can employ what I said above to find out each players underlying cause of the conflict. Do it with each player. Have them voice their concern. Listen. Summarize, the problem will be solved in no time. You will repair a relationship and a weakness in your community will become a strength. Doesn’t matter how big or small the conflict is.
If these players are at each others throats so hard, that putting them in a room will be the end of any possible civil conversation, Speak with them both individually. Same tactics. Let them know that you are going to be talking with the other player as well, and ask them if they would be okay with being in a group chat with the other person so you can resolve the conflict. If you’ve done your job well, getting a yes from them won’t be that hard.
Next, and a lot of people make this mistake. Do not try to combat a persons concerns and fears with logic. Whatever the concern is. Don’t combat the person fear, insecurity, or anger with logic, because they will shut you out. Emotions aren’t logical or rational. They cannot be dealt with using such things. Doesn’t matter how logical or rational you think you are. Doesn’t matter how well formulated you think your arguments are. You are not approaching them with Empathy, which brings comfort, security, and understanding. Instead you’re bringing the exact opposite. Anxiety, fear, and confusion.
Next, do not bait with yes. The worst question you can ask, is a question the obvious answer to is yes. It’s a trap. If you ask a string of questions, and the answer to all of them is “Yes” the person will be waiting for you to spring the trap on them. They will know you are trying to lead them into agreeing with you, whether or not they agree with you. You might get that Yes of agreement, but there are 3 types of Yes.
Commitment, Confirmation, and Counterfeit. If you use a string of questions where the answer is yes, you’re stringing them along with confirmation. And when you ask your question where the answer yes means they agree with you, their yes will almost always be a counterfeit yes. This is just as bad as “You’re Right.” It means they want you to leave them alone.
Yes questions also always open up a bunch of other questions. Take “Do you have a minute to talk?” Seems like a simple question. Do I have a minute to talk? If I have a minute to talk, do I want to talk to you? If I want to talk to you, do I want to talk about what you want to talk about? Second you get this question, you feel bad. Like you don’t have control. Especially given we are socially programmed to be nice. We all love hearing yes so much, we don’t realize how much we hate saying it.
So what do you do instead? You start with No. You give the other person the ability to say no. You do this not by saying “You can say no,” but by asking questions worded so that yes becomes a no. In negotiation and conflict resolution, No is the beginning. No allows real issues to be brought to the table. No protects people from making, and lets them correct, ineffective decisions or mistakes. No slows things down so that people can embrace their decisions and the agreements they enter into. No helps people feel safe, emotionally comfortable, and in control of their decisions. No, at the end of the day moves everyone's efforts forward.
So if at the end of the discussion, you want to hear yes, get used to hearing no. Hear no calmly, and trust that once you hear No you can begin, because no is never the end of the discussion, it’s the beginning of finding the truth.
Finally, never keep a secret. Secrets in conflict do nothing. If you want to resolve conflict, you want to reduce the chance of that conflict ever happening again, all the information has to be on the table. Everything. Nothing spared. No one learns when secrets regarding the conflict are kept from them. Worse, it makes them lose trust and respect in and for you. Makes them feel like they are being trapped and they don’t have a way to escape. You are stripping them of their security which means they will not listen to you. You need to teach, and make the person feel safe and comfortable while you are doing it.
That means you don’t deal with problems anonymously. It doesn’t work. It just instills fear. Insecurity. The human brain demands knowledge, it demands answers. If you keep secrets from a player when you are trying to get a conflict resolved you are setting them up to fail. You are setting them up to feel fear. They will look at everyone in the community with a lens of paranoia. If someone wants to complain anonymously, you need to discover why they want to complain anonymously. You need to discover why, and you need to assure them that they have nothing to worry about. That they have nothing to fear in trying to resolve the conflict. Because for all you know, there could be a miscommunication. Something could have been lost in translation. The person with the complaint might be paranoid about a threat that isn’t even there. Fear isn’t rational.
Now, all of this may seem like a lot to take in. Take some time to absorb it. It may seem like a lot of work. I can hear people thinking “I ain’t a psychiatrist” and you’re right. It isn’t hard though. At first it will be, but any skill worth learning is hard to learn. Eventually, you’ll be doing it as naturally as you would breathe. As it become more natural, you will notice that a layer of anxiety, of concern you didn’t even realize was there, will start to lift from your community and people will start to feel safe. Truly safe. Not safer than other places, but quite possibly the safest place your players can go to in the world. Your community will become a fortress making them feel secure, and as you practice these techniques, and demonstrate these techniques, your community will learn from them and soon it won’t be only you defending them. They will all be playing a part in defending.
Because if you run a community where everyone feels safe, secure, listened too, understood, and respected, that will be the safest community anyone could ever create. It starts with you. We’ve probably all made mistakes, thinking we were doing the right thing. We’ve all made people feel the exact opposite of this goal. It’s not a sign of weakness to admit you were wrong. It’s not a sign of weakness to try and make things right. It’s a sign of strength. It’s a sign of good character. It’s a sign of leadership. I’m going to seem like I am telling you what to do, but reflect on your decisions as a staff member. Think of all of the conflicts, and all of the actions you have had to take to manage your community and ask yourself “Did I listen? Did I do right by all players involved? Did I make them feel safe?” or ask yourself the most important question.
“Could a player have possibly lost respect for me because of how I handled a situation they were in?”
That question is the most important one because it side steps ever other question. If the answer to that question is anything but a solid, definitive no, there is something you could have done better. Making that situation right is the perfect opportunity to start using these tactics because it’s a conflict that’s already there. Put them to practice, and see for yourself if they work. These tactics are the ultimate tool in mending and maintaining relationships. If you think that relationship is in real bad shape, or that bridge has been burned to ash, open with an apology. That will tell the person you are there to rebuild, and ask them if they are alright with trying to rebuild with you. I promise you, if you haven’t killed any of their loved ones, rebuilding won’t be hard. And if you have, so long as you didn’t do it on purpose still not impossible.
I made this presentation, because I want the roleplay community to grow stronger as a unit. I want to see an end to useless drama. I want to see an end to hurt feelings. I want to see an end to hive minds and cliques and mobs, and see a community at large filled with human beings. true human beings, with different opinions, with different views, with their own quirks, and all the other things that make them unique coexisting in harmony. You’re the Staff. You are the leaders of the community and the people the players look up too. If there is anyone who can make my vision come true, it is you. It might be hard, but doesn’t that vision sound like it’s worth a solid shot?
Mecha meme18-May-19 07:40 PM
Perhaps posting this in one huge block may not have been the best option
John Yicks18-May-19 07:40 PM
You live an you learn.
Gallant18-May-19 07:48 PM
I have a way to rescue this; elevator pitch.
What's your elevator pitch?
John Yicks18-May-19 07:49 PM
At what point can you not save a problem player.
I guess, I am better at commentary in other peoples panels than I am at running them.
Gallant18-May-19 07:58 PM
Okay, no, that's fine.
Sorry, bouncing between two panels. So~
As far as problem players are concerned - what do you consider a problem player to be?
John Yicks18-May-19 07:59 PM
Your typical problem player. A player that comes up a lot in staff discussions. You find yourself in conflict with them often. When you try to resolve it traditionally, the behaviors seem to just repeat.
Gallant18-May-19 08:00 PM
Ah. Well, we've had two that I can think of.
One of them was a particular problem, because of their derision for a single member of the administrative staff. They tried to jump through a lot of hoops to circumvent, circumnavigate, and utterly avoid interacting with that staff member by contacting other staff for rulings on what rightly was the primary staff's domain.
Ultimately they started trying to manipulate people in our website against that person - but what they didn't expect was that the admins all knew about it and it died fairly quickly.
They left in a huff.
John Yicks18-May-19 08:01 PM
Did you ever try to address the reason for the avoidance?
Gallant18-May-19 08:01 PM
Multiple times, in multiple ways.
It boiled down to a personal dislike of someone.
Coupled with an ability to gossip like a hen.
John Yicks18-May-19 08:03 PM
Those aren't impossible to repair if you approach it the correct way. Did anything they say ever stand out too you? Did they ever express any feelings of distrust, of not being seen? Not being heard?
Gallant18-May-19 08:03 PM
Ultimately, we avoid banning people permanently. When someone misbehaves as he did, we give them a chance to come back after they've recognized the problem and acknowledge it.
In his case, he did in fact try to come back under another name, and we ended up sniffing him out and eventually asked him to make amends with the person he was avoiding.
It's actually really rare that we have to do that sort of thing, however. I find prevention is a better solution than punishment.
John Yicks18-May-19 08:04 PM
I'm going to be harsh, but this sounds like a lot of telling the person what to do.
Gallant18-May-19 08:04 PM
And prevention involves finding ways to integrate people into the broader community.
Of course it's telling someone what to do. "Don't be a dick."
John Yicks18-May-19 08:06 PM
But back to my previous question. Did they say anything that ever stood out too you?
Feel free to back out of this conversation at any time by the way, I just want to know more.
Gallant18-May-19 08:07 PM
Plenty of things. And I spent so many hours trying to help them address their self esteem, their self worth, their needs and desires, that I might have taken a counseling class at the same time and graduated prior to the final decision.
John Yicks18-May-19 08:08 PM
Did you ever Summarize the world from their point of view, and if so did that ever pull a reaction of "That's right" or a similar epiphany? Did they say "You're right?" As that would be a bad thing.
Gallant18-May-19 08:09 PM
A lot of counseling involves helping people recognize things within themselves; that's why counselors spend so much time listening. So yes, I did listen, for quite a long time. At times, I even empathized with them, and to a certain extent, I still feel their points were valid - from their perspective.
But if a person digs themselves a hole, and sees that it's a hole, but doesn't want to climb out of it - I can't climb out of it for them.
John Yicks18-May-19 08:09 PM
Did you tell them that?
Gallant18-May-19 08:09 PM
As I said. There's only two people in our website's history that have really required any actual administrative involvement.
They both turned out to be people with deep personal problems we couldn't help them with, though we tried.
John Yicks18-May-19 08:11 PM
I like this problem. It's nuanced actually. This person avoided someone heavily. obviously didn't like them. This leads to a sense of insecurity. They were afraid of this person, they were anxious. Is this the only person they had this bad a problem with?
Or was this something they would do to just about everyone and anyone?
Gallant18-May-19 08:12 PM
I hesitate to share personal details, but let's say they had a family problem that precursored it, and this individual reminded them of the family member.
Our administrative staff has someone who's trained to be a sexual victim's advocate, and we also have a nurse on staff. However, we all realize that we're not trained psychologists - we can only do so much before the logical conclusion is to make a referral, and admit that we're insufficient to assist.
John Yicks18-May-19 08:13 PM
Would you mind if I tell you what I would have done in a similar situation? Under the guise of possibly saving the player?
Gallant18-May-19 08:13 PM
It's your panel, after all. ;p
John Yicks18-May-19 08:20 PM
I appreciate that. There is a long standing issue between a player and a Staff Member. This is interesting because this delves into a person in authority and a person without authority having conflict, which means there is an inequality. This, coupled with the connection the player seem to make with a family member means that they were a surrogate.
I would have taken time as it seems you did, to listen to the person. Once I had identified the insecurities and the connection, I would have made plans to address it. Bring the two people together in an environment where they feel safe. In a situation they know they are safe, and they have a level of security. It's obvious this person was feeling a lack of security. Then, I would have again summarized the players concerns, repeated the world from the view of the player.
Then have the two players have an actual conversation with each other with the goal of understanding each other as people. Resolve problems and work towards a solution. Made them partners.
If the problems were as deeply rooted it may have taken a few times, but humans as much as we like to think we are, are not rational people. They are emotional. So I would have pulled the rationality and the logic arguments away and went straight for the empathy and stuck to it.
Like a dog who was beaten by their previous owner, they will be afraid of those who look like them. It will trigger an unwilling response. Attack. To rehabilitate a dog, you need to put them in a position they are safe, they are calm, and they have contact so they can realize they are actually safe, and aren't going to be hurt by what they are afraid of.
Gallant18-May-19 08:21 PM
Yes. We had multiple peacemaking meetings such as the one you describe. As the site's HR rep, so to speak - I also tend to handle the arbitration of disputes between individuals. Some of that arbitration, a frightful lot of it actually, is just getting people to stop being angry long enough to listen to the other person.
John Yicks18-May-19 08:22 PM
Ah, so they were angry with each other?
Gallant18-May-19 08:22 PM
One of your questions in your earlier post was - at what point does it become unsalvageable?
John Yicks18-May-19 08:22 PM
Gallant18-May-19 08:22 PM
My answer is; at the point where the administrative team is spending most of their online time attempting to salvage it.
Uso18-May-19 08:23 PM
'unsalvageable' is something I hate to say, but I know I only have limited time/money/energy. I can get involved in some people's lives and make positive changes but I can't be responsible for everyone.
Gallant18-May-19 08:23 PM
At that point, we have better to things to do - building the website, writing for the people who actually enjoy it, creating content and having our own fun. It becomes a black hole for time and upsets everybody in the process if it drags on for months and months.
Kirby [SU]18-May-19 08:24 PM
I'm going to agree with monseur gallant on this one, I understand that saving a player is good but when they go about, for lack of better terms, infecting the rest of the RP group because of a dislike of one person it only throws in more strife. Also seeing as said person was enough of a problem to be brought up to the staff AND they took the time to try and work things out says alot too if that person is still a problem
Mecha meme18-May-19 08:24 PM
Once a person starts having an adverse effect on not just other individuals but the community at large is when I say it becomes unsalvageable
Kirby [SU]18-May-19 08:25 PM
Also not outright banning someone is a good call, were all people things can get rough sometimes and we take it out on the wrong people. Take some time to sort some stuff things out IRL and give it another go and make an apology if need be.
John Yicks18-May-19 08:25 PM
I must seem like someone who has too much faith in humanity.
Gallant18-May-19 08:25 PM
Oh, not at all.
John Yicks18-May-19 08:25 PM
I have one final question.
Gallant18-May-19 08:25 PM
You're a genuinely good person from what I can see in what you've written with a genuine concern for your players as individuals.
John Yicks18-May-19 08:26 PM
Two, actually, let me take a moment to word them.
[OPP | SU | TNU] Kim18-May-19 08:26 PM
4 minutes to closing ceremonies.
Mecha meme18-May-19 08:26 PM
My instinct would be to usually act in best interests of the larger community, and if someone is causing problems that can't be fixed and they don't want help, they're doing harm to the community
John Yicks18-May-19 08:27 PM
This staff member you speak of. Were they aware of this surrogacy the player had made with them, and, if they were, did they ever make an attempt to sit and have an honest conversation with them, and have a heart to heart to resolve the situation?
I've only heard what the player had done. Both sides are important.
Gallant18-May-19 08:28 PM
That is usually the first course of action.
Josh [TNU]18-May-19 08:28 PM
comes to lock door; stands there
Gallant18-May-19 08:28 PM
John Yicks18-May-19 08:28 PM
I don't mind at all.
Josh [TNU]18-May-19 08:29 PM
since its closing event I mean if its going to be a few minutes thats fine but yeah
John Yicks18-May-19 08:29 PM
I feel this could go on a while. Gallant is a good conversational adversary.
Gallant18-May-19 08:29 PM
Ah. I see. Well, then, it was good speaking with you, John. We can speak further privately.
John Yicks18-May-19 08:29 PM
Gallant18-May-19 08:29 PM
I actually enjoy talking philosophy. I've put a lot of study into groups, politics, and communities.